Yet Another Box Blade Question

[scruffy]

Harv, don't even think about not having your Mom next year! I just lost my 87 year old father a little over a week ago on July 8th. Lost Mom back in 1970. Not fun to lose them, even though you know its inevitable, and realize they reach a point where each day is a blessing to have them still with us.

 

[Harv]

GlueGuy -

I'm starting to believe that I would be much better off if I could lock my rear blade, and I appreciate the offer of the welding help. I think my next family car is going to have to be a 5-ton flatbed so I can cart my tractor and its toys around. If I can't get some of my own welding going, I may just have to bring in someone local to my property. There's a few good welders up there, too. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

scruffy -
Very sorry to hear about your dad. I know you went through a lot with him in recent years. By sad coincidence, my wife's mother passed away one week before your dad. That's one of the reasons I've been a little scarce around here lately. Amazing the ripple effect from the passing of a loved one.

You're right that I should hold a positive thought for my own mom. The past two weeks have been very rough for her (when it rains, it pours), and I think we'll be looking at 24-hour care real soon now. Hopefully, however, she will be able to continue her walks for a while (aided by caretakers, of course). It's one of the few things she still loves to do, and if I can help by flattening a simple path for her, then by god I'm gonna do it. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[roysallis]

The hinged rear blade if designed for producing a level surface. If the blade is adjusted properly, front blade just slightly higher than the rear blade, the hinged rear blade will allow a little dirt, gravel sand, whatever to flow under it creating a "mirror smooth surface".

 

[Bill_in_MI]

Glen,
I have the Woods B100 Box with hinged blade. It works pretty much as you have stated. I don't have top n tilt (yet!) but have tried all the positions...with rear free swinging. It does dig in pretty quickly when you want to do serious earth moving. And, it does a decent job of leveling in the tipped back position...with a load in the box. I made a pad for a pole barn that is due soon, and shaped the land around it for drainage. I was pretty happy with the result considering it was my first time with a box blade. The rear can be fixed with a couple of bolts/pins into brackets that are up and between the two blades. I was not sure I had that feature until I raised the unit and looked under there. (Wouldn't work on it without blocking it up!)

Got my "quote" from Gearmore today via e-mail. As was suggested in earlier posts they sell the kit for $840 less hoses. They have a ROPS mounting bracket for another $100. Kit includes 3 spool valve.

 

[cowboydoc]

Harv,
Roy is right about the hinged rear blade. It is there to smooth out the surface in the back. The hinged blade is used more by landscapers to level out very loose soil. The solid blades on the other hand are used more for dirt moving and leveling of rougher ground and dirt. Just like there are several different kinds of mowers for several different purposes so it is with box blades. Just like a person may have two or three different mowers a person may have a couple different box blades depending on what they are doing. Most box blade work is done with the box level or at a slight angle up or a slight angle depending on if you are moving dirt or leveling dirt. Those guys that know how to use a dozer blade will know that you have to finesse the stick to grade a good road. The same is true with a box blade. It's not just sticking the box into the ground and going to work. You have to constantly be using the three point to raise and lower a little bit to get the results that you want. It's not something that a person can learn to do overnight. I think that's why you see so much frustration here with box blades is because it's more of an art to using one. It takes practice and some good techniques to make one perform like it was meant to. It really doesn't matter how heavy the box blade is either. What matters is how you use the box blade. If you have a lighter box blade you are still going to be able to do the job but just not as quickly. You'll have to make more passes. Now if you have really hard ground then the lighter box blade may not be up to the task to dig in. Just like the light discs. You can't expect to go out and disc up a 10 year old pasture. You'd need a big hydraulic disc to do that. Again the right blade for the job.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Harv,

C'mon bite the bullet and get a real box-blade, weighs about 21,000 lbs., and you only need minimum 360 HP tractor to pull it.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

P.S. - I'd love to see Bird hook-up TNT to this.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[GlueGuy]

Harv & Scruffy,

You're right, when it rains it pours. I just burried my Dad (81 years) about 6 weeks ago. Mom passed away back in '89. Dad had been dealing with Parkinsons, but it's true what they say, you're never "ready"...

The GlueGuy

 

[Harv]

Roysallis -
What you say about the hinged blade being used to meter out a small amount of soil, sand or whatever makes perfect sense to me provided the soil is loose enough, as stated by Richard (Cowboydoc).

Bill -
<font color=blue>I was not sure I had that feature until I raised the unit and looked under there.</font color=blue>

Now you got me wondering -- maybe I haven't looked close enough. Since I obviously don't know my box blade very well yet, I thought it was too soon to go peeking under its skirts. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Unfortunately, it will be two weeks before I get back to the property so's I can check. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Richard -
You speak many words of wisdom on the subject. Thanks!

<font color=blue>You have to constantly be using the three point to raise and lower a little bit</font color=blue>

This brings us back to the ol' position control discussion. On my L2500 I find that I can lower the blade with reasonable precision, but raising it is a whole different matter. On a low-to-high scale of 1 to 8, nothing happens at all until I'm nearly up to 8, and even then it's herky-jerky. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

John -
Since that box blade costs half again as much as my tractor, it should damn well drag itself! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

GlueGuy -
My condolences on the passing of your dad. My own dad died about the same time as your mom. My mother, among other things, is suffering from severe dementia. She doesn't really know who I am any more and can rarely complete an entire sentence (she used to teach 3 languages). To me, the woman I knew as my mother has been gone for several years now. I'm guessing some folks out there know what I mean. But as you say, we'll see just how "ready" I am when the time comes...

 

[cowboydoc]

Harv,
I'm not sure on your tractor but on most of them you can set the three point to be more or less sensitive.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>I'd love to see Bird hook-up TNT to this</font color=blue>

I thought it came with its own TNT./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

 

[gordon]

Harv drop Howse an e-mail and see if the rearblade does lock in place. http://www.howseimplement.com/Contact_Us/contact_us.html

That way you won't have to wait two weeks to find out.
If it's non lockable then you could always drill a couple of holes in the box and use a couple of pins to lock in place. Just a thought. That way no welding would be required.

Gordon

 

[glennmac]

Roy,

If that is the purpose of the hinged blade, it sounds like an extremely delicate balancing act that would only work on very flat surfaces. If the ground were hilly or undulating with the box changing its relative angle to the ground surface, you would not only face the problem of the front edge digging in, but also more or less soil fed out of the hinged back.

All of this would seem to require contant looking backwards, constant adjustments of the toplink, and even adjustments to the position control/rock shaft (which is a very crude device even though it is hydraulic). As tough as a fixed boxblade seems to be to manipulate properly, it sounds as if the unlocked hinged back requires an even more more attention and a more delicate touch.

 

[gordon]

This is a repost from a previous discussion on boxblades. Dealing with a fixed rearblade.

Harv I think the boxblade is one of the hardest to learn but once you do---watch out. One thing that is key to using the box is practice, practice, practice oh yea did I metion that it takes alot of tractor hours to get the hang of the box. One thing that is key to using the box is the three point height adjustment and being able to move it ever so slightly. Another key thing is the toplink adjustment to set the angle of the box. Sounds simple right---not!

Of course soil conditions will have alot to do with the way the box is used. If you have very hard compacted dirt and want to loosen it up of course use the rippers on the box guess that goes without saying.

If you want to cut just alittle off the top its best to have the box pretty level front to back so the box doesn't dig to deep two things are key here the toplink adjustment and also the 3pt height as to how deep you want to go. Remember at times it takes what seems like a minute for the 3pt to move up or down when boxblading but the key is move it in small increments or else you will raise the box to high or be cutting to deep.

If you want to cut deeper shorten the toplink. What this does is put the front blade of the box at a steeper angle going down and depending on your box and how the rippers are set they will be also cutting before the blade allowing to go deeper as well.

If you want to level you can make the top link longer so the front blade isn't touching and your riding on the backblade you can still move dirt but if you lower your 3pt you will be dragging and slowly raise it you will put out a nice level run of dirt.

If your not good with a box and want to look like a pro invest in a hydraulic toplink---best thing since sliced bread. If you can't afford one then you'll be making alot of fine adjustments with the toplink for different operations. With the hydraulic toplink you can go from deep cutting to cutting to leveling out with the backblade with out stopping in one sweeping run just by changing the toplink and leaving the 3pt height alone.

Guess thats some of the basics the key is toplink adjustment and small adjustments on the 3pt level. Just takes time thats all. Don't worry if you can't cut a perfect line with the box it takes hours and hours to be a hot cat with a box. Some days I'm a hot cat with a box and it seems some other days I'm not even tepid!

So ya see Glenn they are user friendly more so to some people I guess.

Good luck
Gordon

 

[MarkV]

Harv,
I have the same box blade as you (Howes) and I do not think the rear blade will lock. I don't know if I am lucky or what, but I don't seem to have near the problems with a box blade everyone else has. I do everything in little bites to knock down the high points first and if the surface is to hard I run the scarifiers first. Once the soil is loose enough, I find that the hinged back blade leaves a nice smooth surface. I know all of that has been said before, so maybe I just take smaller bites.

MarkV

 

[fishman]

Harv,

Thanks to your Mom's desire to walk, lots of us wanna-be box-blade users got a free education on what kind to get and how to get started using it. Kind of funny how a little old lady in California is the impetus for a nationwide discussion on boxblade design and use./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[mlmartin]

Hmmmmm... I had been looking for a justification\\\\\\\\\\\\\reason for a hydraulic top link. That may just be it. Back dragging with the FEL lifting the front wheels off the ground on a steep slope is not my idea of a good time. How much down pressure can you get, enough to interfere with traction?

Matthew

 

[Bird]

Matthew, the hydraulic top link doesn't add down pressure to your 3-point, so the only down pressure remains the weight of the box blade. The hydraulic top link just lets you adjust the angle of the blade from the driver's seat on the fly. Of course it also makes it easier to change implements and hook them up since it seems every time I change from one implement to another, I need the change the length of the top link.

Bird

 

[Bill_in_MI]

Bird,
Speaking of hydraulic top links, and, at the risk of taking this thread way off topic (but I will,) where did you plumb in your "tank return" for your set up. I could probably dig through the archives and find the answer...but tonight...I just don't feel researchy. I'm thinking of getting the Gearmore kit for my B2910: cylinders, 3 spool valve, and optional ROPS bracket...no hoses or fittings. I would get the Kubota rear hydraulic block tap, but am unsure of the return. I could probably "tee" into the FEL return. There is also a port in the 3 pt cylinder housing at the rear of the tractor. Don't know if this is an option or not. All I can remember is that you were a little cautious about your set up at first...heat and noise. I presume you are feeling comfortable with everything by now. Grateful for any other input.

 

[Keoke]

Hi folks, on the hinged box scraper flap. I have a Woods box, hinged flap with pins. I keep the pins on all the time with one acceptation. When using the box to back fill in REVERSE I pull the pins. This allows me to shove dirt when backing up, like a dozer, but when I go forward the flap swings up and gives a fairly smooth surface. I get my smoothest surface with the flap pinned and the nose of the box up with most of the box weight on the curved section of the flap blade.
Loved Glenmac's point of view of boxed scrapers, it is more then right on. I don't think I will ever be good at using this implement.
Harv, the advice on welding a couple on pin loops to lock the flap makes good sense. If you are going to have the flap, might as well get max use out it.
You will probably need to spend less time in the city and more in the seat if you are going beat that box.

george

 

[glennmac]

Just to summarize for ourselves and our posterity, we have scraped up four uses for the hinged back blade.

1. You can extend the toplink and drive forward, the hinged blade swings backwards out of the way, allowing the front blade to cut more aggressively into the dirt.

2. You can shorten the toplink and drive backwards, the hinged blade swings forward, allowing you use the box as backwards bulldozer.

3. You can adjust the toplink so the front blade is just off the ground and drive forwards, allowing a thin layer of soil to be fed under the hinged blade.

4. You can lock the hinged blade and use the box just like a fixed blade box (except for Harv's box).

There. Now all you boxers can go forth and create mirror smooth surfaces.