Yet Another Box Blade Question

[glennmac]

That's good advice, John. Yes, we have wetlands regulations and I will have to work through that. Unfortunately, like so many other good ideas, this wetlands stuff has been taken to ridiculous extremes. Every ugly muddy patch becomes the blessed Everglades. Worse yet, my wetlands, assuming they do meet that definition, were caused by silting in of the natural drainage patterns by the construction of housing way up the hill behind me.

 

[GrantMO]

I just read this entire thread and, again, not having had any experience of my own with the subject would like to comment. Twenty years ago I worked for a contractor who was a wizard with a boxblade doing the finishing grade on the lots of houses and businesses we built. He had years of experience and would never let me have a shot at it, or run his small dozer for that matter. He knew I'd be wasting valuable time trying to learn to do it right. Now, years later I plan to get a boxblade and spend alot of hours learning it. Who knows, maybe I'll talk Bird into driving up here and setting up a hydraulic top link or TnT. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RobertN]

Glennmac,

I think of a box blade like a pair of pliers or vicegrips. If you are careful, a pair of pliers is a good all-around tool for lots of jobs. However, it doesn't necessarily do the best job. For any given use of a pair of pliers, there is a tool that is correct for the job, like a wrench, or wire strippers, a socket, ect.

A box blade does pretty good for a lot of jobs. It's a decent all-around tool. But, for most jobs, there is a specific tool, like a rock rake, or grader blade, or rippers on a tool bar ect. But... it wold be wayyyy expensive to buy all those tools, and the fast hitches to go with them(since you'd be changing tools all the time).

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[glennmac]

RobertN,

Since you are the only person I am aware of who has both the rollover box and the regular box, could you amplify your previous comparison with some more specifics. What tasks do you find the rollover better at, and which ones do you find the regular box better at? You must have been displeased at something with the rollover if you went and got a regular.

By the way, I do agree that if one takes the time to learn how to use a box properly, and if the ground isnt completely hostile, the box seems to be a tool that can do multiple tasks in an acceptable manner. That seems to be the view of many who are happy with their boxblade experience.

 

[RAllen]

Robert makes a good case for the boxblade being a good multipurpose tool but perhaps not the definitive best tool for a particular job. I agree to a point. That said let met relate how I purchased my boxblade.

Along with 2910, I purchased a Landpride 1572 Rock Rake with a drop down blade for road grading. Found the rake not to be heavy enough to "bite" and began looking at scarifiers. Even had a Landpride unit delivered to my property. In the Landpride catalog, they show their scarifier hooked in tandem with my rock rake. I tried this and found the combined unit to really be too big for my 2910. I sent the scarifier back. Traded it for the boxblade. Its heavier than the scarifier thus it bites better. The blade alone grades better than the drop down blade for rough grading- again its heavier. The boxblade was even cheaper that the scarifier. The drop down blade with gauge wheels does a better job at final grading but the box is far better getting hard ground workable. At least in our small tractors, I wonder why anyone would buy a scarifier since the box blade does the same thing, better and cheaper. Thus ripping hard soils is one place the boxblade really shines. I guess a road grader would do a better job but I don't think any three point attachment could better the box at that particular job.

Rick /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RobertN]

I have not had a lot of time to use the box scaper yet... But, I do like it better as an all-around tool.

The rollover box works great for scraping alone, pushing alone, smoothing alone, or ripping alone; it can only do one function at a time.It does a BEAUTIFUL job of smoothing. By setting rolling the blade over backwards, ascii attempt <--( , and pulling forward, it smooths like a hot knife on butter. Part of this though, is that the entire blade had a curve to it, instead of the flat back a box scraper has.

When in the rip position, you have about 10" of ripper you can use. With 5 rippers, my little 19hp Kubota can only pull till the rippers are 4-5" deep, depending on soil condition(Calif Gold country hard red clay). Given the right tractor, you could really rip deep.

As far as scraping, that curved blade can really cut in. Even my little B8200 could really bury the blade and take a BIG chunk!

In my time with the box, I have found it very handy to run an inch or so of rippers with the box. That is real handy for smoothing and "adjusting" and area. If I adjust the box forward on the toplink(TnT!), then it will expose more ripper, and dig deeper. I just really like that ability to do a combination scrape/rip/cut.

Now, the rollover could accomplish the same thing, but it would take a ripping pass, and then a scraping pass. I think that was, if anything, the displeasing part.

Now, one "wrench" to throw into the works, is I had my box scraper only a short time before setting up the TnT. I have not tried the rollover since. Maybe I will do that this weekend for giggles. I have a dirt pile I can bust up and move around.

I can't really think of anything a box can do that a roll-over can't, or vica/versa. The box can do more at one time, but a rollover can be more agressive at a single task.

One other thing of note, is the rollover scraper is HEAVY. My medium duty box scraper is definitely lighter(I don't have the figures handy).

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[LarryT]

Bill, I have the Gearmore kit, but the dealer made the mounting bracket. $100 is WAYYY too much. If you go back to my earlier posts with pictures, the bracket is a flat piece of steel with two "U" bolts. I'd do it myself.

Larry...

 

[LarryT]

Well, it's hard to imagine that anyone could possibly add anything to all the posts on this subject over the past few days. However, I've been away for awhile and have read the entire thread tonight. I think there are a few important points missing on box blade operation that should be added to this thread. Before I go into that, I need to add that my box is "medium" weight unit, about 450 lbs. It has a fixed rear blade and I have no experience with a hinged rear blade.

I think no one here questions how to "dig" with a box blade. The question seems to be how to "smooth" with the box. Here are my tips;

1. Most importantly - GO SLOW! No matter how much horsepower your tractor has, dirt falls by gravity and depending on the moisture content, it can fall pretty slow.

2. Tilt adjustments should be very FINE. Once you are in a "neutral" position, e.g. equal ground contact with front and rear blade, small adjustments can make big differences. A 1/4" difference in blade height can make a big difference in results.

3. For smoothing, which includes filling low spots and bringing down high spots, the tilt should be adjusted to where the box remains about 1/3 full, give or take a little.

4. For final smoothing, tilt the box a little further back on the rear blade. There should still be some buildup of material in the box, but that should be a realtively small amount.

5. Don't expect a mirror finish in one pass. Repetition is the key. Repeated passes, preferably at different attack angles, will yeild the best results. and amazing quickly.

6. In addition to the above, if the ground is hard, lower the scarficers a small amount into the ground to break up the soil before the blades do their thing.

Having said all that, I'm no expert. I probably have about 50 hours with a box blade. But, I have very good results with my box blade in rocky hard clay soil in Southern California. Despite initial reactions, I love my box blade and it is the default attachment on the back of my tractor.

Harv, you gotta fix that rear blade!

Larry...

 

[Harv]

Well, I'm heading back up to the property tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon, so I'll finally have a chance to apply all the wisdom that has poured forth in this thread.

Just a side note here -- Mom has been in and out of the hospital numerous times since I was there a couple weeks ago. Docs aren't quite sure what's causing all of her new pains, but she has been unable to take a single walk since I left. Ironic that I should have started this thread when I did. Today's report was that she is finally doing better, so I might be just in time to take her on a little test walk myself. Better get this path polished off, eh? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Anyway, LarryT's summary most closely matches my own observations, which is what led to my original question. Going very slowly (been using first or second gear) and making micro tilt adjustments from a "flat" box was what was working best for me. Each pass left an entirely different texture as I experimented with the angles.

I'll make one final inspection of my box blade to make sure there is no hidden way to lock down the back blade. If there isn't, I might just be doing a little drilling and bolting this weekend. With just shy of 50 hours seat time and even less with each implement, this will be the first time I attack any of them with power tools. Gotta start sometime, I guess. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I'll try to take pictures that show the results of my efforts on the path. Not the easiest thing to capture effectively on film (pixels?), but I'll see what I can do.

 

[Flint]

For now we see through a glass, darkly;

While not a religious man, I couldn't help but make this literary allusion. I attempted to put a mirror finish to a bed of gravel on the side of a pole barn so I could stack some firewood away from Oregon's beautiful winter weather coming up soon. Needless to say I became very frustrated with my "dark glass" results. I managed to get the rough part done and then resorted to that time honored and trusty attachment, the hand rake, to polish it into a mirror. I don't mean to take pleasure in other's troubles, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only one struggling up that mountainous learning curve dragging a box scraper.

Thanks for all the help,

Dan