YM1700 won't start

[Ginormous]

I think you've fixed it, but found some other stuff to deal with. It can be very easy to get overzealous trying to crank these things to get them to started when they have lost prime. As the others have said, a good cleaning (and maybe new terminals on the ends if they look corroded or loose), and a freshly charged battery will get you up and running again.

Since the power needed to run a starter motor is amps divided by volts, if battery voltage is low the current required must increase proportionally, and that extra current generates potentially damaging heat. Hopefully the starter is still sound; you may get lucky.

Unfortunately, it does not look like I got lucky. I still get the "click!" from the solenoid when I turn to start, but the starter motor isn't turning. I took the starter apart. I cleaned it as best that I could -- I couldn't figure out how to get the central part to come out of the housing. It was really, really dirty and had a lot of bits of copper floating around -- see before and after pics below. It turns easily by hand. BTW, I also am able to turn the engine by hand. After I reassembled the starter and re-attached to the engine, I still just get the "click!" The connections are no longer getting hot after working on those, so I did make SOME progress. So, does this mean the starter needs rebuilt? I don't know what that entails. Thoughts?

 

[284 International]

This is a pretty good, though detailed and involved, step by step process of isolating and identifying starter problems.


"If the solenoid clicks but the motor won't turn, it means current is flowing through the solenoid coils but not through the main contacts.

Connect the voltmeter to the motor terminal of the solenoid per Figure 19. If there's no voltage from the motor terminal to ground (when the solenoid is activated), that indicates the disc isn't making contact with the terminals. The solution is to repair or replace the solenoid."


Your cables probably aren't getting hot anymore because the solenoid isn't transmitting current to the motor; there is some chance the bare solenoid is available locally for you today if yours is damaged. Hoye and LMTC sell them for sure. Hoye has an excellent video on replacing the solenoid.

 

[Ginormous]

This is a pretty good, though detailed and involved, step by step process of isolating and identifying starter problems.


"If the solenoid clicks but the motor won't turn, it means current is flowing through the solenoid coils but not through the main contacts.

Connect the voltmeter to the motor terminal of the solenoid per Figure 19. If there's no voltage from the motor terminal to ground (when the solenoid is activated), that indicates the disc isn't making contact with the terminals. The solution is to repair or replace the solenoid."


Your cables probably aren't getting hot anymore because the solenoid isn't transmitting current to the motor; there is some chance the bare solenoid is available locally for you today if yours is damaged. Hoye and LMTC sell them for sure. Hoye has an excellent video on replacing the solenoid.

Awesome... thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[Ginormous]

I measured 0.4V at the solenoid's motor terminal when activated. I also measured 10.2V at the switch connection on top of the solenoid. The battery is at 12.7V right now.

The trouble shooting guide says that if it's reading zero V at the motor terminal, the solenoid is not making a connection, but if there is voltage then the problem is in the starter motor or cabling. Does 0.4 V count as having voltage? (Maybe that's a dumb question, but I don't mind asking the obvious to make sure I don't head the wrong way.)

 

[careyo63]

This is what I just came up with. I needed to put a charge on the battery were it been sitting cold Neg. on the V-meter to the Grnd on the Battery. I showed 12.5 Pos. on the starter. and 12.5 0n the Pos. White/R on the Ing. switch with the Key in the on position the same Readings. On the starter Solenoid key in the on Position. On the Blk/Grn small wire on the top "0" with the key turned to the Start position 12.2 on the Blk/Grn tn the Solenoid. On the Starter Pos. from the battery 12.5 on the big pole next to it on the Starter motor "0" until you turn the "Swtch to the Start Pos." 12.2 I checked all of that with the decompression on. After all checked Good Enough :laughing: Hit my TS 10 sec. and it fired right up no smoke NODDA trace wich I set my throttle guessing to 1500 rpms. which was dead on the money.

This is what I came up Last week I believe. You can Bypass the Solenoid with a screw driver and or put the jumper cable Pos. to the starter itself ground to the frame. And try starting it that way.
The looks of the Brushes your rebuilding that one. I turned mine around and got 2yrs. out of it. The shop commented on seeing someone was in it which I admitted and was a good thing the acutual rebuild my cost ended up 71.00$ He gave it to me Tax Free:thumbsup: If you find a starter Alt. shop "don't tell them Yanmar" Tell them Hitachi on a JD Or a JD YM240. Same Starter.

 

[California]

FWIW - This is a little off-topic but I'll share it anyway. When my starter became too slow I replaced it with this higher power one from ebay.

NEW STARTER YANMAR ENGINE 3TN78L 171353-77010 AT110818. $100, shipping included. That auction will end but the Yanmar NipponDenso and Deere part #'s he lists are good to know.

This later starter is a direct replacement for YM2000/YM240 and I assume YM1700/Y195 as well. It requires one change: the small wire coming down from the keyswitch to the solenoid needs a 6" extension added. (because the terminal on the starter is down low, not up top). The starter is maybe a quarter or half inch longer so it should fit the available space. Number of teeth and mounting pattern is the same.

This one outputs 2KW of torque compared to 1.3 or 1.4KW for the original starter.

Since this is spec'd to start larger Yanmars and Deeres it spins these little twins like crazy. Instant starts!

Also - If I had an old tractor with hard starting due to low compression but otherwise fine - and I only needed the tractor a few hours per year - I might put this more powerful starter on it to push the need for overhaul forward a few years. So long as it starts reliably why overhaul it? This starter might also be a solution to high altitude difficult starting.

 

[careyo63]

Yanmar Tractor Parts: STARTER ASSEMBLY ^SALE WAS $399^

I am all for saving a buck or two but after reading this when it was time to Rebuild or Replace I didn't want to find out the hard way. Ended up with the same warrenty and still cheaper with the piece of mind that I had the correct Org. Starter. For Hoye to post this I'm sure it's true.

 

[Ginormous]

FWIW - This is a little off-topic but I'll share it anyway. When my starter became too slow I replaced it with this higher power one from ebay.

NEW STARTER YANMAR ENGINE 3TN78L 171353-77010 AT110818. $100, shipping included. That auction will end but the Yanmar NipponDenso and Deere part #'s he lists are good to know.

This later starter is a direct replacement for YM2000/YM240 and I assume YM1700/Y195 as well. It requires one change: the small wire coming down from the keyswitch to the solenoid needs a 6" extension added. (because the terminal on the starter is down low, not up top). The starter is maybe a quarter or half inch longer so it should fit the available space. Number of teeth and mounting pattern is the same.

This one outputs 2KW of torque compared to 1.3 or 1.4KW for the original starter.

Since this is spec'd to start larger Yanmars and Deeres it spins these little twins like crazy. Instant starts!

Also - If I had an old tractor with hard starting due to low compression but otherwise fine - and I only needed the tractor a few hours per year - I might put this more powerful starter on it to push the need for overhaul forward a few years. So long as it starts reliably why overhaul it? This starter might also be a solution to high altitude difficult starting.

Good tip. How long ago did you install it? Per the Hoye warning, have you looked at the teeth on your flywheel to see if they are being chewed up?

 

[Ginormous]

BTW, I pulled off my solenoid again and tried to see about cleaning it. There doesn't appear to be any way to open it up to get to where the disc makes the connection.

 

[careyo63]

FWIW Rebuild it they replaced my Solenoid also in the Price I stated. I went back and pulled the Reciept It will be a Yr. come May and my Bad it was a Whopping 72.00$ and some change. PM me if you don't have any Luck finding anyone to rebuild it and I will give you the Info.

 

[California]

Yanmar Tractor Parts: STARTER ASSEMBLY ^SALE WAS $399^

I went and read that description. No question, Aaron's starters are top quality. If I earned my living with my Yanmar that's probably what I would buy.

I remember when the ebay guy was telling his customers that his broad-application 11 tooth starter could replace the (proper) 15 tooth Yanmar starter, and it should have been obvious to everyone that this wasn't going to end well. That seller is now long gone.

My starter came from rareelectrical. Take a look at his ebay feedback. Over 40,000 feedbacks! Just now I went and read several pages. The most recent neg, about 250 lines down, was a customer who found UPS's standard, stated, shipping time intolerable. The next was someone who couldn't get 24 volts out of two alternators in series. The next two could have been bad product or bad install, it's not clear. Overall after reading all that I have the same impression I did when I bought my starter in March 2011, this is just generic Chinese clone replacement stuff like they sell at Autozone etc. My experience is like the majority of those 40,000 satisfied rareelectrical customers, the starter simply works.

Since the engine catches an instant after dropping the compression release (and the starter has the correct number of teeth) I don't see how it could hurt the ring gear. Surely that problem would appear within rareelectrical's 40,000 feedbacks if he were selling starters that weren't up to standard - and it hasn't. I'm happy with mine.

Or - if you prefer - the stock starters are standard Hitachi or NipponDenso gear like on most Japanese cars. Any starter/alternator rebuilder should have the parts and expertise to rebuild it. For me I wanted to try this high output clone starter and it has met my expectations.

Is anyone interested in buying my old starter? As I noted above, it's slow and so could probably use a professional rebuild. This was the starter specified for later Yanmars, not YM2000. Part # YM121120-77010 Denso 028000-5730. It has a 2003 date written on it; I assume that was the last rebuild or rebuild warranty-expiration date.

View attachment 248730

 

[Ginormous]

I decided to take my chances with the same Rare Electrical starter that California bought. I purchased it on Ebay for $100 including S&H. Before I installed it, I made a few measurements. The diameter of the gear matched the stock starter. I also measured how far the gear extends when engaging the flywheel during starting. It extends about 1/8" further than the stock, which I decided was ok. The bolt holes matched up as required. One issue I had is that the main fitting was about 0.01" too big to fit into the hole. I'm pretty sure I determined that this was not a problem with the starter but rather some imperfections sticking out on the engine side. I used sand paper, smoothed them out and was able to mount the starter flush as it should be. I connected up the electrical connections and VROOOOM! It started almost immediately. (BTW, it happens to be unseasonably warm today (~55 degrees) so that is obviously going to make starting easier.) I'm just glad it started at all! Time to celebrate... Cheers! :drink:

 

[bruce1966us]

I decided to take my chances with the same Rare Electrical starter that California bought. I purchased it on Ebay for $100 including S&H. Before I installed it, I made a few measurements. The diameter of the gear matched the stock starter. I also measured how far the gear extends when engaging the flywheel during starting. It extends about 1/8" further than the stock, which I decided was ok. The bolt holes matched up as required. One issue I had is that the main fitting was about 0.01" too big to fit into the hole. I'm pretty sure I determined that this was not a problem with the starter but rather some imperfections sticking out on the engine side. I used sand paper, smoothed them out and was able to mount the starter flush as it should be. I connected up the electrical connections and VROOOOM! It started almost immediately. (BTW, it happens to be unseasonably warm today (~55 degrees) so that is obviously going to make starting easier.) I'm just glad it started at all! Time to celebrate... Cheers! :drink:

Wow glad you got up and going

 

[Djames55]

California and Ginormous... Could you guys tell us how these starters are holding up... Any problems or damage to the flywheel...

 

[jb92563]

Just saw this thread and my starter is slow as well. I give a rebuild a shot and if no improvement may go the same route with the $100 replacement.

I too am interested if the warnings manifested themself?

 

[Gary C.]

:thumbsup:I believe that is the same starter I used on my YM2000 two years ago, still works great.

 

[California]

California and Ginormous... Could you guys tell us how these starters are holding up... Any problems or damage to the flywheel...

It continues to work like new. Spins fast and starts instantly.

 

[Djames55]

Okay... Thanks I'm going to order one for my YM2000BD

 

[buntrock]

How in the world do you get the top bolt on the starter out?I've had mine off a couple times and boy that bolt was a pain!!!!!!!!!1

 

[California]

I have a vague memory of using a long 3/8 extension and a socket that had an integral U-joint. But that may have been on something else.