YM1802d-Electrical issue

/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #1  

zorback

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Texarkana Ar.
Tractor
YANMAR YM1802d
Last year i had to replace the voltage regulator (melted down), when i did that i checked the output of the alternator. It was around 14 vac. Now my battery is low. Should i be able to disconnect the battery while the tractor is running and still have guages and lights etc? I also checked the voltage at the battery cables with them disconnected. Shouldn't there be 12 or so volts there for battery charging. Am i correct in thinking the voltage regulator is bad again?
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #2  
What was the charging voltage after you replaced the reg and what is it now, at about 1500rpm? How much voltage is in the battery, engine off?
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Don't know, didn't check after regulator replacement. NOTE: I replaced the regulator almost a year ago. Battery voltage is fine. But with it disconnected from the machine i find no voltage on the battery leads, shouldn't there be charging voltage there? Also shouldn't the guages and lights be working?
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #4  
I wouldn't count on reading a voltage on the leads with the battery disconnected. Several years ago there was a thread here where one of the members posted a schematic diagram of the regulator in his (I think it was) 1610. As I recall after carefully analyzing the circuit (I was an electronic circuit designer in a previous life) I concluded the circuit required the battery to be connected to work. Your circuit might be the same.

If my memory serves correctly, the voltage from the dynamo (alternator) should be higher. I would recommend a search of this forum to verify that before replacing the regulator again.
 
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/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #5  
Don't know, didn't check after regulator replacement. NOTE: I replaced the regulator almost a year ago. Battery voltage is fine. But with it disconnected from the machine i find no voltage on the battery leads, shouldn't there be charging voltage there? Also shouldn't the guages and lights be working?

Couldn't tell you that. Never heard of anyone trying it. If battery voltage is fine, why do you think you have a problem? What is the charging voltage now at 1500rpm, and what is the battery voltage, engine off? No help without answers.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#6  
The battery voltage is 12.78 volts. Exactly what i have done is: Cecked the voltage at the battery connections with the tractor running 1500rpm and with the battery cables disconnected from the battery. There is a reading of "0vdc" there. Also with the battery disconnected there are no gauges operable or no lights.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #7  
Too confusing for me:confused2:. You originally said "now my battery is low", now you are saying it is at 12.78 volts.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #8  
The battery voltage is 12.78 volts. Exactly what i have done is: Cecked the voltage at the battery connections with the tractor running 1500rpm and with the battery cables disconnected from the battery. There is a reading of "0vdc" there. Also with the battery disconnected there are no gauges operable or no lights.

I'm pretty sure you need the battery connected to get any reading, it somehow will complete the circuit, at least thats my thinking. This is really easier than your making it.

Put the battery in your tractor, (unless its been on a charger, if it has wait 30 mins after you disconnect it), dont start tractor, now read the voltage with tractor off at the battery. If battery is good you should read around 12.6. Make sure your battery is good first, a bad battery can cause things to do funny things. Once you have the voltage even if its only like 12.4 it will still work.
Now start the tractor and let it idle then run it up to 1500rpms and after a min or so put your volt meter back to the battery posts. As long as your reading higher than the initial level your charging. Unless the battery was weak and drained while cranking you should see 13+ volts now on the battery if your charging correctly. If the battery is weak, give it 5 -10 mins at that 1500rpm and check it if your not seeing over 13rpm i would trouble shoot the battery again if you think it weak, but if you still dont have 13+ your charging system has a problem somewhere, either the reg or the alt.



Forget making up your own diagnostic tricks without batteries and dangling cables. The tractor will run forever without a battery and you will have all lights etc. You actually are supposed to run with the lights on if your running without a battery so that there is a load on the system since there is no battery to sink a charge to. At least i think i read that in one of the manuals at one point.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #9  
Resting fully charged battery should be around 13.2 volts, charging can be up to 14.3 Volts without damage. But, lead-acid battery's will self discharge quick, so it is not uncommon to have one in the 12 volt range depending on age and condition, and temp.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#10  
You said that a tractor will run forevever without a battery, you are correct. You also said that one should run with lights on to load the system a little, you are correct. Only problem is like i said with the tractor running and battery disconnected i have no guages or lights. There is no output from the voltage reg and the alternator output is around 14vac. Is this the correct output for the alternator? Battery connected or not there should be voltage output from the reg, correct?
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #11  
Always enjoy reading threads about battery and charging methods/systems, there are so many differing opinions.

In a former life I was an eng for HP. Had one assignment investigating different battery chemistry's. One of the battery types was LA batteries. Think that puts me in a place where I know a little about them and associated charging systems.

Not familiar with all the Yanmar electrical systems but do know a little about the one on my tractor. The alt is fairly small, about 15A max. Power out from the alt is A.C. and is rectified by the VR. The alt uses a permanent magnet and not a electromagnet field winding. This design is not unlike that found on most small engines like B&S, Kohler, etc. The only way for controlling voltage is to shunt power in excess of that needed to charge the battery and run lights, gages, etc. The alt is always putting out max power.

Now, for a nom 12V LA battery that is fully charged and has been at rest for several hrs the nom voltage should be close to 12.7V. Typ charge voltage via a alt/generator is ~ 14.25V. LA batteries typ have a fairly small self discharge rate, ~1%/mo of remaining capacity.

You really need to take some voltage readings. Battery with engine not running. With the engine running take readings at the alt output (remember output is A.C.) and at VR output and at battery terminals. I would expect to see a reading at the alt >14V. Should see voltage at VR output and battery the same voltage. Due to the small capacity of the alt, the voltage at the battery will vary depending upon how much of a load is being placed on the alt for charging and running any of the electrical acc. With lights off one should see a voltage higher than it was at rest and slowly increasing until it bumps up against the VR setting which should be about 14.25.

I could envision a VR design where when there is no battery attached, all the alt power being shunted to ground so there isn't any power available for the lights, etc. Could be all wet here but think this is a possibility.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #12  
Are you troubleshooting the system, or just trying to test an electrical theory? If troubleshooting, you are going about it all wrong.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #13  
Obviously, the battery is good enough to crank the tractor.

Alternator is putting out, voltage regulator *apparently* is not putting out.

Probably, the alternator is directly connected to the regulator, then the regulator to the fuse block via key switch, charging lamp, and battery via the starter.

Personally, I'd double triple check the ground on the regulator and then start checking continuity on the regulator outputs. Rationale: If the battery is staying charged, then part of the regulator is working. I would think that it's all or none, works or does not, so that makes me think grounds and wiring.

fwiw,

Keith
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Hey guy's,
Here's what i have done. I've replaced the battery based on Clemsonfor's advice and check. The battery voltage this morning was 12.43vdc. Although the battery would not start the tractor and with the battery leads disconnected there were no lights or guages,
with the tractor running (1500rpm) and battery connected, the battery voltage is 13.99vdc. Far enough proof to me the battery is the problem. I have been an electrician since 1982 specializing in plc/ panelview programing, and a whole lot of instrument experience. I'm kinda ashamd to be asking for this kind of help.
THANKS A HEEP GUY'S AND/OR GAL'S FOR ALL THE HELP.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #15  
Check your fuses. I cannot speak on the other questions about voltage at the alt or the voltage from the regulator.

Sorry, i see you got it figured! i had this thread open for a long time till i replied , and then saw all the ones since your last message and all the others who replied as well.
 
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/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #16  
Resting fully charged battery should be around 13.2 volts, charging can be up to 14.3 Volts without damage. But, lead-acid battery's will self discharge quick, so it is not uncommon to have one in the 12 volt range depending on age and condition, and temp.

Pretty sure a 12 volt battery in good condition is 12.65V, now if you just shut down it will read 13.??V untill it settles back down to the 12.7 level. If your reading 13+V on a battery that has been off a charger for hours or days i think it is unusual.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #17  
We had a 1610-D that we had to replace the VR 3 x in 1 year, so.... you could have a bad regulator again...
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #18  
To me, it sounds like you have a bad regulator. And I've seen several vehicle electrical systems run lights and acc. directly off of the battery. So no battery-no lights. I think its mainly to allow for cheap VRs because the batt can withstand short voltage increase and/or shortages. Whereas the VR is more sensitive.

I think you've pretty much so zeroed in on that it's the VR.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #19  
my YM14 pancake alternator puts out 20VAC, this is not enough to get a normal automotive regulator to output and extinguish the alt light. these alternators have lower outputs so the regs need to correspond as i found out.
 
/ YM1802d-Electrical issue #20  
He finally said what the charging voltage is and what the resting battery voltage is. Obviously no prob other than bad battery. A fully charged battery should reach and hold 13+ volts.
 

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