You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

[CalG]

Of course you can still tip a skidsteer on it's nose. Nowhere did I say that ALL weight is transferred back. I just said, the further back the lift point the more the weight goes to the rear.

I agree ONE of the reasons the pivot point is way back is for lift height but let's assume that's not important.

Let's assume you only need to lift the bucket load, say 6 inches. Let's load a conventionally designed SS bucket with a load that barely allows the rear wheels to stay on the ground when lifted those 6 inches. But they DO stay on the ground. One pound more in the bucket and it would take a nose dive.

Now lets redesign the lift arms and cylinders so the lift cylinders attach just over the front axle and the lift pivot point is just a few inches behind that. Bucket is the same distance from the front axle as before.

With the same load in the bucket, what would happen if you tried lifting the load? Would the front axle have more load on it than before?

Btw, youse guys might all be nuts, but I'm enjoying discussing this with you bunch of cashews.

If the bucket were in the same location, and dismissing the weight of the FEL structure, the tipping about the front axle would be exactly the same.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Glade, its my understanding that if the tires didn't squat and there was no "give" in the luft arms ir frame . . that ground pressure would rise on the rear axle and reduce on thw front axle and that would cause the fel to lift some and the 3pt hitch pins to lower some . . Creating a smaller movement than if each side of the lever was the same length. Thus it supports your initial concept that with a very short distance of rear axle to 3pt lift arm pins and a very long distance from rear axle to fel front . . it takes a big difference in rear ballast for a smaller change in in front axle pressure. I also assume the tip of the fel bucket front edge moves upward more than does the 3 pt. Pins move downward in measurement

,,,,,,,,,No.

 

[ovrszd]

If the bucket were in the same location, and dismissing the weight of the FEL structure, the tipping about the front axle would be exactly the same.

I concur. (Play that movie where Matt Damon was pretending to be a Doctor )

 

[LD1]

If you move the loader arms back, the same amount of torque would remove less weight from the rear and add less weight to the front compared to the loader arms being more forward, because the torque has to act on a longer lever arm to the front axle (pivot point).

Bingo. Yep, cylinder pushes down, loader arm pulls. Look at the loader arm and cylinder like a big wrench. Push down on the wrench, rear axle gets lighter

Why can you still tip a skid steer?

Excellent point. using old pilgrams logic, if you overloaded a skidloader, it would tip over backwards, teh front would come up, thats not whats happens in real life

 

[RoyJackson]

Well, you guys can do what ever you want to do...but tractor manufacturers recommend rear ballast when using a loader for a reason.
And Deere (most others too, I'd wager) even put a ballasting chart in their manuals

 

[LD1]

Of course you can still tip a skidsteer on it's nose. Nowhere did I say that ALL weight is transferred back.

If the "load" is forward of the front axle NONE of the load is transfered to the back. Regardless where the loader arms hook to the machine.

If the bucket were in the same location, and dismissing the weight of the FEL structure, the tipping about the front axle would be exactly the same.

:thumbsup:

 

[jenkinsph]

,,,,,,,,,No.

What a clear and concise answer to a long winded post.:thumbsup:

 

[4570Man]

Here is another small scale test this time using a toy skid loader. The geometry of the arms on this loader aren't very good, BUT they still attach behind the rear axle. The weight distribution is also poor, but neither of those should matter for this test.





Unloaded front axle weight 12.6 oz
Unloaded rear axle weight 9.2 oz
Total machine weight 21.7 oz

Now I loaded the FEL with 5 oz.

Loaded front axle weight 22.6
Loaded rear axle weight 3.8 oz. this is with the arms all the way down.
Loaded rear axle weight with the arms 1/2 way up .3 oz.

I had to raise the arms to this position to get more weight on the rear axle VS the unloaded weight.

 

[davesl708]

Of course you can still tip a skidsteer on it's nose. Nowhere did I say that ALL weight is transferred back. I just said, the further back the lift point the more the weight goes to the rear.

I agree ONE of the reasons the pivot point is way back is for lift height but let's assume that's not important.

Let's assume you only need to lift the bucket load, say 6 inches. Let's load a conventionally designed SS bucket with a load that barely allows the rear wheels to stay on the ground when lifted those 6 inches. But they DO stay on the ground. One pound more in the bucket and it would take a nose dive.

Now lets redesign the lift arms and cylinders so the lift cylinders attach just over the front axle and the lift pivot point is just a few inches behind that. Bucket is the same distance from the front axle as before.

With the same load in the bucket, what would happen if you tried lifting the load? Would the front axle have more load on it than before?

Btw, youse guys might all be nuts, but I'm enjoying discussing this with you bunch of cashews.

If you make the changes you state you have a forklift.

 

[LD1]

Here is another small scale test this time using a toy skid loader. The geometry of the arms on this loader aren't very good, BUT they still attach behind the rear axle. The weight distribution is also poor, but neither of those should matter for this test.


View attachment 458428


Unloaded front axle weight 12.6 oz
Unloaded rear axle weight 9.2 oz
Total machine weight 21.7 oz

Now I loaded the FEL with 5 oz.

Loaded front axle weight 22.6
Loaded rear axle weight 3.8 oz. this is with the arms all the way down.
Loaded rear axle weight with the arms 1/2 way up .3 oz.

I had to raise the arms to this position to get more weight on the rear axle VS the unloaded weight.

View attachment 458427

NICE:thumbsup: