You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

[gladehound]

Can we get to 300 replies here?

Yes we can!

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Well, the words some and significant have no meaning. They are relative terms not absolute. Soooo.. No point in going further. If I proved to you that placing 1000 lbs on the 3pt took 1000 lbs off of the front axle (easily possible if placed at the correct distance behind the lift balls), that might be some or that might be significant. That is a losing proposition.

You make a fair point but let's say you have 1000lbs 2ft behind the rear axle and your wheelbase is 8ft. I believe you have only taken about 250lbs off the front axle (2/8th or 1/4th of 1000lbs).
If the weight on the front axle with a capacity load might be 5000lbs (an educated guess for a medium large CUT). Then you have reduced the weight on the front axel by 5%.
.
Weather this is significant is subjective. It just is not as much as I would have thought before gladehound brought this up.

 

[Snowback]

Yes we can!

That was funny. The count was 297 and then you dropped 2 in on me while I was typing. Nice! Also a very useful discussion here to help new owners and also those who have never fully extended the loaded bucket on dad's tractor way up in the air when they were 14 years old...

 

[gladehound]

Use appropriate counterbalance behind rear axle and far enough out to return your front axle to somewhere approximating its normal unloaded operating range on average during work periods. Still able to steer, and not adding the full additional 1,000-2,000+ pounds of force directly on the axle stress points that can come from a full bucket, full forks, or full grapple.

When using the loader you are loaded about half the time, and unloaded the other half. Too much counter balance/ballast/weight would have you doing wheelies back to the gravel pile between loads! Can we get to 300 replies here?

This works if you run your loader at 50% capacity. And for me, that's fine. Most of my loader work keeps the load around 50% capacity or less.

At max loader capacity it falls apart because any counterweight big enough and far enough back to return you front axle to somewhere approximating its normal unloaded operating range on average will make the front so light that you can't steer during the 50% of the time that you don't have a load in front.

-My front axle typically carries ~3000 pounds (tractor, loader, bucket)
-front axle at max lift carries ~8000 pounds (2,500 pounds 1x wheelbase in front of the front axle)
-The difference is 5000 pounds.
-Need to remove 2500 pounds from the front axle. That's one long weight out back and if you actually had such a weight you couldn't steer unloaded.

 

[gladehound]

That was funny. The count was 297 and then you dropped 2 in on me while I was typing. Nice! Also a very useful discussion here to help new owners and also those who have never fully extended the loaded bucket on dad's tractor way up in the air when they were 14 years old...

So how'd that work out for you when you were 14?

 

[Snowback]

So how'd that work out for you when you were 14?

It may or may not have looked something like this for that as of yet unidentified 14 year old that I mentioned earlier. The kid can't remember much about that episode except that nothing broke and he was usually much more careful from that point on.

On to that skidsteer dirt tipping reenactment I posted earlier in the thread? Now the kid remembers that one very well, but he was 17 then and trying to show off while the boss took a break. Just last year I was able to stand the Max on its nose while trying to lift up a stretched and lifted golf cart with my clamp on pallet forks. Now that would have made a great picture, but my feet were firmly planted on the dash until I got back down. Everything works fine until the total CG just barely tips past the front axle and then it's all over.

 

[LD1]

View attachment 459303

Interesting picture.

Way to small of a tractor and with a light PHD on the back to boot.

What is that? a Full bundle of treated deck boards? 2500-3000# assuming only 8' boards?

 

[ovrszd]

When using the loader you are loaded about half the time, and unloaded the other half. Too much counter balance/ballast/weight would have you doing wheelies back to the gravel pile between loads! Can we get to 300 replies here?

Very true. And I've found myself in situations where I had too much counterweight and made the front end too light in steep terrain situations.

Ballast weight on the rear tires will never do that.

To me, that's the difference between counterweight and ballast.

 

[ovrszd]

Interesting picture.

Way to small of a tractor and with a light PHD on the back to boot.

What is that? a Full bundle of treated deck boards? 2500-3000# assuming only 8' boards?

I think it's a simple matter of the counterweight (PHD) being too light......

 

[CalG]

The Little Hurlimann 435 weighs in at 2500# The appropriate Allied 195 loader weighs in at about 1000# with mounting

The lift capacity of the loader is between 750-1000#

With a load capacity of 2200# on the front axle, a counter weight that takes off weight from the front axle is going to be way more than 5% reduction.

 

[gladehound]

I think it's a simple matter of the counterweight (PHD) being too light......

Here we go again! Round 15... DING!

 

[gladehound]

The Little Hurlimann 435 weighs in at 2500# The appropriate Allied 195 loader weighs in at about 1000# with mounting

The lift capacity of the loader is between 750-1000#

With a load capacity of 2200# on the front axle, a counter weight that takes off weight from the front axle is going to be way more than 5% reduction.

Yes will defer depending on the tractor loader combination. Every single one will be different.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

The Little Hurlimann 435 weighs in at 2500# The appropriate Allied 195 loader weighs in at about 1000# with mounting

The lift capacity of the loader is between 750-1000#

With a load capacity of 2200# on the front axle, a counter weight that takes off weight from the front axle is going to be way more than 5% reduction.

You put 1000lbs on the 3pth?

 

[LD1]

I think it's a simple matter of the counterweight (PHD) being too light......

Can't tell the model of loader/tractor...but I think it's more than just counterweight.

Looks like the loader was only able to take enough weight off to slide the load. As soon as it cleared, down it went

 

[CalG]

You put 1000lbs on the 3pth?

The hurliman sits on a 64 inch wheel base. The 3ph Cat 1 lift arms are 32 inches long and sit a bit behind the rear axle center. Anything hung off the arms will have a CoG beyond that.

32" is 1/2 of 64, so weight centered right at the lift arm eyes takes weight off the front axle at a 1:2 rate.
to take 5% off a 2200# max load would require a 220# weight.

Real world, I hang a 500# back blade which carries it's weight well behind the lift eye centers.. Also have a 5 cubic foot concrete counter weight with the Cat 1 tool bar cast in "near CoG".
Concrete is heavy ;-) (150#/ft^3)

So taking a SUBSTANTIAL load off the front axle is not difficult for this little tractor ;-)

 

[BarnieTrk]

.... Also have a 5 cubic foot concrete counter weight with the Cat 1 tool bar cast in "near CoG".
Concrete is heavy ;-) (150#/ft^3) So taking a SUBSTANTIAL load off the front axle is not difficult for this little tractor ;-)

Do you have a photo of your 5-cu.ft. concrete counter weight you could share with us?

BarnieTrk

 

[CalG]

Do you have a photo of your 5-cu.ft. concrete counter weight you could share with us?

BarnieTrk

Not on file, and the counter weight is off with the neighbor. He uses it to off set his front end snow blower. I use the back blade in winter.

But "visualize" an 18" X 18" X 24 + tall block of concrete with Cat 1 tool bar pin ends sticking out the sides about 6 inches up from the base, and a pair of straps with top link holes out the top. It does a great job of settling the tractor when on hilly lands, (the only kind I have ;-)

 

[LD1]

Not on file, and the counter weight is off with the neighbor. He uses it to off set his front end snow blower. I use the back blade in winter.

But "visualize" an 18" X 18" X 24 + tall block of concrete with Cat 1 tool bar pin ends sticking out the sides about 6 inches up from the base, and a pair of straps with top link holes out the top. It does a great job of settling the tractor when on hilly lands, (the only kind I have ;-)

I am visualizing that but only visioning 4.5 cu ft of concrete maybe my eyes are going bad

 

[CalG]

So, shoot me for a guess based on memory.

And that 24+ remains unknown. And I'm going to keep you guessing. ;-)

It's almost like this one!
https://www.kellfri.co.uk/counterweight-3-point-cat-1

self made.......



edit to delete bad link

 

[countrybumpkin]

How about one that is 8.89 cu ft ? I've had it for a little over five years now and works good.