You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

[LD1]

Looks like I missed a good discussion today.

As to gladehounds reason for posting....

Could are correct. There isn't a lot of difference made. But when someone asks about ballast, lightening the front end is the only reason ballast is used. It's just one piece of the puzzle. There are many reasons for ballast.

Kinda like when I bought my Kubota. There wasn't a single reason I did so. Rather there were many. Location, price, dealer, features, etc. So it would be like someone saying, well tractor y was cheaper, you should have bought that. Again, there was more than just a single factor.

So yes. 3ph weight does lighten the load. Even if only 10% difference. Might not make a huge difference in wear and tear, but 10% is still 10%. And for the record, I am not one of the ones who claim "you will trash your axle if you don't use counterweight".

Axlehub: I don't think I can explain things any better than already done. You are wrong and your logic is flawed. People giving you examples up to the point of raising an axle don't change things. Adding weight to one end a pound at a time until the other raises in the air.......do you think it goes from having 1000# on the ground to in the air all in an instant just by adding a few more pounds to the other end? I hope you get this worked out.

As to the earth being flat/round, whatever. Some places are flat, some pyramid shaped, some bowl shaped, heck there's even vertical earth in some places

 

[aczlan]

I can give one example (the numbers that say "around" might be off by a couple of thousand pounds but the ratio is accurate).
We have a LS P7010 at work. It has a front axle weight limit of around 8000#.
In the winter, we run a 14' Horst snowwing (SB3200W914, HLA Snow | 3200W SnowWing 1,820#) on the front (can be a 9' pusher box, a 9' plow, expand to a 14' straight blade or anythign inbetween (the ends pivot 180 degrees from straight forward to straight back)).
With loaded rear tires and wheelweights (no 3 point ballast, as speced by the selling dealer) we had around 10,000# on the front axle with the loader raised and in the winter of 2014/2015 we broke the right front spindle twice.
We put a 2000# counterweight on the 3 point hitch (about 5' out from the rear axle centerline) and it reduced the weight on the front axle to around 7000#.
So far, the front axle has been fine, but we have only had to push snow on 3-5 days.

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

Would be curious to know the dimensions of that weight and wheelbase and all.

For 2000# on the 3ph to remove 3000# from the front, one would think the weight would have to be 1.5x the wheelbase behind the rear axle.

If you say it was only about 5' back the wheelbase would have to be just 40".

I know you were guessing/assuming on numbers, and scales don't lie. But either that weight was alot heavier, or alot further back

 

[npalen]

I'm surprised in no one mentioning the effect of tire pressure on all of the above.

 

[aczlan]

Would be curious to know the dimensions of that weight and wheelbase and all.
For 2000# on the 3ph to remove 3000# from the front, one would think the weight would have to be 1.5x the wheelbase behind the rear axle.
If you say it was only about 5' back the wheelbase would have to be just 40".
I know you were guessing/assuming on numbers, and scales don't lie. But either that weight was alot heavier, or alot further back

It was a ~2' by 3' by 2.5' ish chunk of concrete with chunks of steel and granite rocks in it which weighs 2000# per our truck scale. It is mounted on a set of 3 point forks.
It might have been more than 5' back, but I don't think the center was more than 7' back.
I will see if I can get more specifics tomorrow.
The wheelbase is 86.6" per TractorData.com LS P7010 tractor information

Aaron Z

 

[SPYDERLK]

We had a big discussion on this last summer? With oversized and he did not believe it aboutballast until he did a real test on the scales. Now he is a believer.

No. Its wrong because we a re not talking a static condition. Enuf has been said about the greater front loading possible with rear ballast that it should have been called to your attention as obvious. If you use your loader lightly, counterweight will reduce front load. If you use your loader to capacity pushing and lifting, then rear ballast and counterweight will enable much more weight on the front axle -- up to the combined weight of the entire tractor, its ballast and counterweight, and the load supported on the loader. The tractor will move but not travel in this condition because the rear wheels are skimming and you cant steer. If you use the loader a little lighter duty youre able to steer and travel as needed with about 90% of all combined weight on the front axle.

 

[4570Man]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is the greater pushing ability with ballast. My backhoe and loaded tires weigh over 3,000 pounds. This much weight makes my tractor push much harder making it more like to damage the loader.

 

[TomSeller]

Ballast? Put on a backhoe, cradle a big rock, extend the dipper and lower the boom. Just watch out turning around

 

[4570Man]

Ballast? Put on a backhoe, cradle a big rock, extend the dipper and lower the boom. Just watch out turning around

When I needed to move a bunch of logs I did that except the boom was in the closet position. That is too much ballast and causes the tractor to bounce. If I extend the boom out it will lift the front wheels off the ground. I'd say that relives the stress from the front axel.

 

[4570Man]

And what's your opinion on the lever arm length ( 3 point ) that he needed to achieve his result....

It would have to be pretty long or a whole lot of weight, but you don't want to achieve my results. With such little weight over the front you can't steer without the split brakes.