Your comments please

[getut]

Vin,

I've said it other threads, but I find that any censorship, even when done with good intentions is a dangerous, slipperly slope.

There are many many precedents set that show over and over again that site owners cannot be held responsible for what is said on their site.

No matter how good the intentions of the site owner or moderators, censorship is now and always will be wrong. Even and ESPECIALLY even if the owner/moderators do not agree with what is being said. In fact, that is the real test of someones resolve. It is VERY easy to allow everything while you agree with someone, but to still allow opinions or philosophies different from your own is great.

I always get greatly offended each and every time I see ANYONES thread or post get deleted here.

 

[Bird]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would get upset if a post is removed (and yes, I've had some of mine removed, and they should have been). "Censorship" is wrong? I can understand that viewpoint in some circumstances, but remember, a website is private property. And just as most of our members feel (and rightly so, I think) that they have the right to prevent trespassing on their real estate, I think the owner of a website has a right to decide what is posted on that site, whether we're talking about TBN or any other website. And if any of you ever get your own website, I'll bet you'll agree. I'll bet you establish some kind of rules, and when you do, there'll always be someone who disagrees with those rules no matter what they are. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And as for precedents showing that the site owners cannot be held responsible for what is said on their site. OK, I agree in general; not entirely though. However, if you understand the judicial system in our country, there are two problems. Number one, you can still be sued and even if you win, you may be out a lot of money defending a lawsuit. And number two, you know that sometimes precedents get overruled. How would you like to be the first to lose a big lawsuit that sets a new precedent? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif It won't be the first time something like that happened.

When you look at how many members TBN has, and the number of messages posted here, I reckon Muhammad must be doing something right. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Hakim]

Very well said Bird.

The other day I was at Starbucks having a cup of coffee. Suddenly, someone in the place starting cursing, really a blue streak. The manager immediately told the person to leave, and picked up the phone to call police.

Now, wasn't that a violation of "freedom of speech"? Wasn't that censorship? Of course it was, in an "absolute" sense.

We in America have various forms of "censorship" everywhere, all the time. In fact, we welcome it as one of the great methods of organizing people and maintaining civilized interactions.

There are many things you absolutely cannot say at work, in various public places, at church, etc.

We at TBN have created a place where people who like tractors and rural lifestyle are welcome, and -- as Bird pointed out --- with 25,000 members, we must have struck the right chord with most of them.

We have found that those who yell the loudest about "censorship" and "freedom of speech" really mean they want to be forcefully obnoxious and destroy the atmosphere of this forum. They are usually simply troublemakers who eventually get thrown out.

"Censorship", as it is so often bandied about, is really only about the Constitution forbidding the Federal Government from limiting our freedom of speech. It regulates them as a government entity (and no one else) -- like saying we can't talk about tractors, ever or anywhere -- that would be censorship) /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif.

The right to freedom of expression has never been considered unlimited; governments may still prohibit certain damaging types of expressions. Among the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals.

Even thought he "standards” of freedom of speech get adjust via various court cases, the rules of the constitution apply only to the federal government.

In any event, arguments, pleas and discussions about "freedom of speech" and censorship simply are irrelevant here. I wish more people understood that.

If someone truly does not like the atmosphere here, they are invited to go and visit one of the 35 million other sites.

 

[PBinWA]

Well said Hakim!

Keeping the community focused and living by the rules is part of the game. If you don't like it then you can go and play elsewhere. I don't mean to sound blunt but this is just my opinion.

A lot of effort goes into a site like TBN. Sometimes this effort will involve bruising some egos and stepping on toes. When the TBN mods start deleting postings about specific brands or products that do not advertise with them then it is time to start complaining. As I see it, nothing that is truly tractor or "country" related has been deleted.

No politics, no jokes, no inflammatory comments or rudeness. Is that too much to ask?

 

[ByronBob]

Vin,

I believe everyone is of the same opinion. Some people here go out of their way to make things difficult with their outside the box comments just to cause trouble.

Nobody looks at you in this manner. Leaving would be a negative situation for you and us by the knowledge you bring from the down under.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Me too, Vin! Thanks for postin' and adding to what makes tbn great. I know I get outta line myself. but we would miss havin you.. Besides where would we all stay when we vacation in your neighbothood if you left us?!!!

 

[Dozernut]

Don't be offended by some deleted posts, there are more important things in life. I have really enjoyed your posts on your house boat, other projects, experiences and would regret your departure. Leave if you must , but you will be missed by your friends.

 

[daedong]

Hakim

I am NOT anti censorship but I am anti stifling of my post. I had one deleted that was a Sundie paper joke tractor related, I don’t wear the argument of what it can lead to because as displayed they or bits can be deleted at will. (Punch line I’m an X –tractor Fan) now come on fellow’s, fair suck of the sav, Fair dinkum,

The other which under the circumstance in hind site is hilarious I was actually saying NO Politics here but someone could not understand my Australian humor (sorry for that)

The Deletion about 10,000 deaths I do accept and understand partially. You could just delete bits of it.


What makes me really offended is the fact that I try to keep it clean and non-offensive, admittedly a few times I have stepped over the line so to speak. Those few times have probably been more to do with the fact that I am a dinky di ocher, that is a little less sophisticated (bit rough around the edges) than my northern counterparts

 

[MikePA]

Modern life can be complicated enough, that's why I like to keep some areas of my life simple. TBN is one of those areas I like to keep simple. Here's my summary of the rules.

1. Follow the Terms Of Service.
2. In the Related Topics forum, "No politics, religion, joke lists or personal/legal advice threads."
3. Before making a post, remember TBN (and CBN) are Family Friendly sites.

These are not exhaustive obviously, just my summary. Lots more detail in the TOS and FAQ.

As Hakim has so eloquently explained, there are rules on TBN (see above for my summary). Not many, but a few, otherwise there'd be anarchy. These rules have made TBN a success. While Hakim, Muhammad and Ibrahim, are always looking to make TBN better, there are some foundational policies that were implemented on TBN, refined over the years, then implemented on CBN and probably every site they develop (not speaking for them, I just see a trend /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

What one person thinks is a 'light hearted and innocuous' political comment, another does not. That's why the Related Topics forum rules indicate NO politics. Same for jokes. It's not whether they're appropriate or not. They are not allowed. Finally, there were 85 replies in the '10,000 deaths' thread. It was not yours that caused it to get deleted. Emotions are running high in the aftermath of Katrina and it showed in that thread. It was time to put it to rest.

 

[OkeeDon]

MikePA wrote, "It was not yours that caused it to get deleted."

That's true. Two of those 85 responses were callous, shallow remarks that attempted to color ALL of the thoughtful replies as simple "Monday morning quarterbacking". I protested that characterization. The thread went "poof" and disappeared.

Those two replies were from Bird and MikePA, both moderators. Apparently it's OK for them to say whatever they like, but don't challenge them...they have the power.