Your Land is my Land

[ultrarunner]

Let me provide a boundary example I was involved with.

My friends father owned a view building lot in Piedmont CA... property in Piedmont can be very valuable... lots of mansions.

He was going through the permit process to build his home... the survey proved the neighbor's fence and row of roses /lawn encroached 20+ feet for 90' and it was exactly where the the drive would have to go...

He suspected as much but the neighbor was insistent the property line was the existing fence... told the surveyor to get out... etc.

So with the survey in hand... my friend and about 20 of us... met at 9 am sharp. One hour later... there was no more fence and no more roses and ever inch of vegetation removed... it was like a military operation.

The reason for the timing is because this is when the family went to Temple... so no one would be home.

My friend grew up on a ranch in Montana that had been in the family since pioneer days... he said he knew how to handle squatters...

You can imagine what happened... police were called, the neighbor got his lawyer out there on Sunday... Police said it was now a civil matter.

Legal papers started arriving Monday morning... that neighbor spent a fortune, filed Lis Pendens, etc... got his own survey but denied having done so but it had been filed.

When it was all said and done... the neighbor lost every round and had to reimburse my friend's father for frivolous filing...

The experience soured my friend on building... but he now had approved permitted plans, sold the property and walked away with 450k for his "Troubles"

He won every battle but debatable if he won the war... well, financially he did but said he could never live there having to see that guy every day...

 

[dodge man]

The above example is a good example of the legal process if it involves court. Even the winner does not really win.

With the OP I can not tell if the boundary problem is frivolous or if the neighbor is running slip shod all over his place. Truth is it does not matter. Once there is a problem I tell people that you have to treat the boundary like there is a laser beam running down it. You step over the line, it will cut you in half.

 

[/pine]

Like previously stated...all points are moot until there is a current legal survey and all involved parties are aware of property boundaries...
There is one thing that can be done to possibly eliminate some dispute...Scan the deed (and warranty deeds) as text then do a word search for terms like "rights of" "egress", "ingress"...etc...

 

[TheMan419]

Like previously stated...all points are moot until there is a current legal survey and all involved parties are aware of property boundaries...
There is one thing that can be done to possibly eliminate some dispute...Scan the deed (and warranty deeds) as text then do a word search for terms like "rights of" "egress", "ingress"...etc...

Title policy should point these out as well. If there is an easement for what the neighbor is doing it will be public record and disclosed in the title policy.

 

[Furu]

Not saying that this is the case in this instance but it is very possible that both property owners could have surveys accomplished IAW their individual deeds and both can legally, by their respective deeds, own the same strip of land. This overlap of deed descriptions has a fancy name that I can not recall at the moment.

I own a property that is 50 plus acres. I own the SW 1/4 of the SE 1/4 and the westerly 165 ft of the SE1/4 of the SE1/4. My neighbor owns the 1138.99 ft of the easterly portion of the SE1/4 of the SE1/4.
Seems simple as the quarter section south boundary was 1304.89 feet by all modern surveys prior to 1992. My parcels was broken out back in the 1920's and the other in the 1940's.
Unfortunately a surveyor in 1992 moved the quarter corner as he determined that it had not been previously located correctly. The basis for that is ill defined but has been accepted since 1992 due to this individuals reputation. The end result is that the SE1/4 of the section is now smaller that it was when the deeds were written. Now it is 1278.44 feet but our combined southern border length by deed is 1303.99 ft. Since the one deed was defined from the SW corner and the other deed was defined for the SE corner, there is an overlap of ownership that is 26.45 feet in width along the eastern boundary. You get into a senior deed and a junior deed issue and it is can be messy as you both legally own the same piece of land until the courts decide how to modify the deeds.
The real problem is most surveyors do not look at anything other that the legal description and the previous surveys of the parcel that they have been hired to work on. Thus they never see the overlap unless the same surveyor does surveys for both parties and can not get the corners to match.

 

[ultrarunner]

I had this with the folks property... being only 12 at the time... I read the legal descriptions and they overlapped.

It was hard to get anyone to take me seriously... finally Dad took me down to the county and I presented my case on graph paper... I was right.

County redrew the plat after asking which side we wanted smaller... Dad lost about 3/4 of an acre... tax bill reduced... the overall didn't matter too much as the folks owned the adjacent parcels...

Part of the problem is the nowhere was it shown contiguous on the Assessor Map...

The old legal description goes to Spanish Land Grant and is 11 pages for 19 acres covering multiple parcels!

 

[DB Pilot]

No rights of way have ever been given. Deed is clean. No overlaps of of property lines. My neighbor and I are not in disagreement about the line. He just keeps using the property and doesn't care how I feel about it. The tearing down of Posted signs and tossing of t-posts indicates to me that, if he doesn't get his way there will be trouble. Law enforcement has said they need a legally filed survey in order to enforce it. They should have that this week sometime. :thumbsup:

 

[Gator6x4]

No rights of way have ever been given. Deed is clean. No overlaps of of property lines. My neighbor and I are not in disagreement about the line. He just keeps using the property and doesn't care how I feel about it. The tearing down of Posted signs and tossing of t-posts indicates to me that, if he doesn't get his way there will be trouble. Law enforcement has said they need a legally filed survey in order to enforce it. They should have that this week sometime. :thumbsup:

You can enforce your property line by signing trespass or littering warrants. Law enforcement cannot enforce laws on private property. Obtain a survey. Send the neighbor a registered letter advising him he will be charged with trespass or littering the next time he trespasses or litters. Then follow through with the arrest document procurement.

You can continue calling law enforcement until you have a 20 foot snow. They are not the property owner and therefore have no legal standing on determining who can and who cannot come onto your property.

 

[Omega Woods]

I had this with the folks property... being only 12 at the time... I read the legal descriptions and they overlapped.

You're my hero.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

No rights of way have ever been given. Deed is clean. No overlaps of of property lines. My neighbor and I are not in disagreement about the line. He just keeps using the property and doesn't care how I feel about it. The tearing down of Posted signs and tossing of t-posts indicates to me that, if he doesn't get his way there will be trouble. Law enforcement has said they need a legally filed survey in order to enforce it. They should have that this week sometime. :thumbsup:

Well, there is you answer. Get your survey, have it legally filed, protect your property as you see fit, AND DON'T CARE HOW YOUR NEIGHBOR FEELS ABOUT IT...