Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

It may have been just age (of gen) but Alan's story reminded me of something I came across years back.

Not this article (it's talking about bigger systems), but my take away is giving a low power portable a basic resistive load to chew on may help stabilize the gen, before plugging a UPS in.

Working in Harmony: Generator and UPS Compatibility | EC&M

Rgds, D.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Responding to the neutral bonding question a ways back - the neutral must be bonded in any household system in one place only. This is normally the service entrance at the main disconnect. Where this get confusing for people is when you add a "separately derived source" like a generator.

If the neutral is not switched in the transfer switch, the normal service entrance bond is still connecting the generator neutral to ground. You need to have a ground connection back to the service entrance panel from the generator - a ground rod connection is not sufficient. In this case, you don't need to temporarily bond the generator for testing as there is still a neutral to ground connection since it is not switched by the transfer switch.

If the transfer switch is switching the neutral - meaning there is no path from the generator neutral back to the service entrance neutral bond, the generator should have it's neutral grounded at the generator. Again, you should have a ground run to all panels. Even though you have the neutral bonded in two places in this setup, the two system neutrals are isolated from each other therefore each system only has one neutral bonding location.

Hopefully this simplifies it for people... Think of the circuit electrically - neutral must always be bonded in one location only whether on utility or generator supply.

 

[PILOON]

From a ways back:

"I was talking with a retired mechanic in an auto parts store a couple of winters back...... he was picking up carb cleaner for the 1 year old snowblower carb parts in his hand.... main drilled-tube orifice (can't recall the real name) was totally plugged with white crusty deposits. It was not his, he was helping a neighbour that knew nothing about engines."

Those "white crusty deposits' were corroded aluminum.
Like red is to rusty iron.

The water content from Biogas will bring that on, and if left long enough can completely destroy those small engine carbs.

 

[Alan W.]

Quite the show Alan.... but not the one you wanted to see !

More proof these things run on Smoke !

I think it was daugen (or....) who posted some low cost plug-in Vac displays..... your pyrotechnics is a good example of why I should have them here by now....... good to have one sitting in the front of the generator, circumventing the need to get a DMM out....

Rgds, D.

Thats what happens when ya assume that all is ok. Never again.
Will check the generator next week to find the problem.
In the meantime I opened the surge suppressor to see what happened.
Think it will be ok if I blow it out and oil it.

 

[grsthegreat]

The older .. pre 2008.... GENERAC whole house generators could have a failure on the voltage regulator and the gen will output 350 VAC.... and NOT turn the generator off. All whole house units after 2008 have prevention from excess or under voltage. It rarely happens, but can. When someone asks me if its worth fixing an older unit, this is the main reason I won’t do it.

Don’t want the liability. I am sure most if not every portable generator would not shut down on over voltage. I really doubt the circuitry is there. Ive seen my share of generators (mostly predators) that fail with one side of 240 circuit giving something like 200 volts and the other side giving 40 volts. Not sure what is occurring, and I never tore into one to find out. They make great boat anchors.

 

[ultrarunner]

Interesting thread learning from others...

House number 1,2 and 3 no issues with neutral


In each single family home the Main is a single 30 amp Edison fuse feeding a 2 circuit sub panel with a 20amp plug circuit and a 15 amp light circuit and no grounds.

Thing is I never had a problem of not enough power even with the 3 bedroom house... washer, dryer, microwave and refrigerator.

 

[grsthegreat]

Thats what happens when ya assume that all is ok. Never again.
Will check the generator next week to find the problem.
In the meantime I opened the surge suppressor to see what happened.
Think it will be ok if I blow it out and oil it.

View attachment 687309

you let the magic smoke out

 

[RjCorazza]

The older .. pre 2008.... GENERAC whole house generators could have a failure on the voltage regulator and the gen will output 350 VAC.... and NOT turn the generator off. All units after 2008 have prevention from excess or under voltage. It rarely happens, but can. When someone asks me if its worth fixing an older unit, this is the main reason I won’t do it.

Don’t want the liability. I am sure most if not every portable generator would not shut down on over voltage. I really doubt the circuitry is there. Ive seen my share of generators (mostly predators) that fail with one side of 240 circuit giving something like 200 volts and the other side giving 40 volts. Not sure what is occurring, and I never tore into one to find out. They make great boat anchors.

That sure sounds familiar... Though with a portable 7000exl Generac. It was supplying over 300v , but fortunately I had very little damage. HVAC transformer and (2) TripLite surge protectors were taken out.
My electrician neighbor found a bad crimp connection on a wire coming from (?) the voltage regulator. I did get 17 years of light use out of the generator.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

From a ways back:

"I was talking with a retired mechanic in an auto parts store a couple of winters back...... he was picking up carb cleaner for the 1 year old snowblower carb parts in his hand.... main drilled-tube orifice (can't recall the real name) was totally plugged with white crusty deposits. It was not his, he was helping a neighbour that knew nothing about engines."

Those "white crusty deposits' were corroded aluminum.
Like red is to rusty iron.

The water content from Biogas will bring that on, and if left long enough can completely destroy those small engine carbs.

I’ve been involved in warranty assessment for a major manufacturer for years. The white material is aluminum corrosion due to water.

Ethanol in gasoline is hygroscopic meaning it absorbs moisture either from the air or any water in storage tanks. That’s the reason people put methyl hydrate in their tank to eliminate water - it absorbs the water into the gas and carries it through the engine.

When the gasoline containing ethanol evaporates the water is left behind in fuel tanks and carburetors causing rust and corrosion. Eventually the water evaporates as well but much slower and usually after the damage is done.

I’ve seen it more times than I can count.

 

[Industrial Toys]

The Chinese simply Engineer a BACK DOOR into all their stuff to attack you at the worst possible moment.



I do like my home built, non-chinesium, analogue, no programming required, no batteries required voltage monitor and hi-low alarming thingie. Gives me peace of mind when running a generator, that some VR isn't having a nervous breakdown or something.

The only complaint I have is that if I tighten up the low voltage alarm setting too much, the water pump sets it off every time. Would be nice if a delay was incorporated in the meter.