Your thoughts for a friends 1st pistol

[Pilot]

Federal form F4473 question 11.a says, "Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."
Also, further down the form, "I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law. "

The ex cop bought the gun for his uncle who paid him for it after a background check at a second licensed dealer. Now he is a convicted felon because he answered yes to question 11.a. I suspect the same rule would apply even more clearly if you buy a gun as a gift.

Check out the form here:https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

The real question is, do you want to take the chance of a felony conviction?

 

[Pilot]

Federal form F4473 question 11.a says, "Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."
Also, further down the form, "I understand that answering 'Yes' to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law. "

The ex cop bought the gun for his uncle who paid him for it after a background check at a second licensed dealer. Now he is a convicted felon because he answered yes to question 11.a. I suspect the same rule would apply even more clearly if you buy a gun as a gift.

Check out the form here:https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

The real question is, do you want to take the chance of a felony conviction?

It might (?) be OK if you go with him, he fills out the form and you pay for it, all with the understanding of the dealer that you are paying for it because it is a gift. Ask beforehand.

 

[Bird]

As with most people, I have not read all the charge, the entire statute, or the entire court ruling; only what has been in the news.

It might (?) be OK if you go with him, he fills out the form and you pay for it, all with the understanding of the dealer that you are paying for it because it is a gift.

There is no doubt that would be legal, the same as if you just gave someone the money to go buy a gun and neither the dealer nor anyone else would ask where the money came from.

But news stories led me to believe (and I could certainly be wrong) that you can still legitimately buy a gun to give as a gift, as Eddie Walker did, without violating the law.

 

[brin]

Federal form F4473 question 11.a says, "Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."
Also, further down the form, "I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law. "

The ex cop bought the gun for his uncle who paid him for it after a background check at a second licensed dealer. Now he is a convicted felon because he answered yes to question 11.a. I suspect the same rule would apply even more clearly if you buy a gun as a gift.

Check out the form here:https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

The real question is, do you want to take the chance of a felony conviction?

Pilot...My opinion, you are right...I read the supreme court opinion this AM and it is straight forward..the form 4473 asks if you are buying this gun for yourself to eliminate straw purchasers...it states it is a felony to answer falsely...and it does not matter what ones intent is...The best way would be to buy a gift certificate or take the recipient of the gift to the sporting goods store with you and let them fill out the proper forms...WE will all keep our fingers crossed...this seems to be just what happened in the case before the supreme court...:2cents:

 

[brin]

As with most people, I have not read all the charge, the entire statute, or the entire court ruling; only what has been in the news.



There is no doubt that would be legal, the same as if you just gave someone the money to go buy a gun and neither the dealer nor anyone else would ask where the money came from.

But news stories led me to believe (and I could certainly be wrong) that you can still legitimately buy a gun to give as a gift, as Eddie Walker did, without violating the law.

Bird it is sad ...isn't it...but now no one can buy a gun as a present for anyone but themselves....how the country has changed...My Dad gave me a couple of the guns I now have....but now he could not do that...not legally.

 

[k0ua]

Eddie WAS the actual buyer. This is not a straw purchase. The cop WAS NOT the actual buyer, therefore straw purchase. The difference is Eddie gave the pistol to the young man, and DID NOT receive any compensation of any kind for it. And Texas state law allows transfers between individuals without an FFL. So no laws broken, no lies told.

 

[MoKelly]

Pilot...My opinion, you are right...I read the supreme court opinion this AM and it is straight forward..the form 4473 asks if you are buying this gun for yourself to eliminate straw purchasers...it states it is a felony to answer falsely...and it does not matter what ones intent is...The best way would be to buy a gift certificate or take the recipient of the gift to the sporting goods store with you and let them fill out the proper forms...WE will all keep our fingers crossed...this seems to be just what happened in the case before the supreme court...:2cents:

Wait a minute you guys. On Form F4473 in the instructions for Question 11.a. it specifically states ... "You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party." Thay also give a clear example ... "if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with hs own money to give Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "Yes" to question 11.a."

Giving a gun as a gift is perfectly OK.

The Supreme Court case deals with one party buying a gun specifically to resell the gun to someone else. That is not acceptable.

MoKelly

 

[k0ua]

Wait a minute you guys. On Form F4473 in the instructions for Question 11.a. it specifically states ... "You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party." Thay also give a clear example ... "if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with hs own money to give Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "Yes" to question 11.a."

Giving a gun as a gift is perfectly OK.

The Supreme Court case deals with one party buying a gun specifically to resell the gun to someone else. That is not acceptable.

MoKelly

Exactly. I think we were typing at the same time

 

[brin]

OK - Makes me glad I put the :2cents: in there...maybe I'll reduce that to nonsense...LOL

 

[k0ua]

OK - Makes me glad I put the :2cents: in there...maybe I'll reduce that to nonsense...LOL

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a Chicken s... thing to do for the government to prosecute the cop for the straw man purchase, especially since they did an FFL transfer, later on, but technically the cop was making a straw man purchase. Sure he was doing it to get some stupid discount for his friend, but the law is the law, and he made a straw man purchase and he knew it.

Most of these and the thousands of denials because the applicant is a Felon are never prosecuted because they don't want to mess with it. BUT in this case (notice the mention of another investigation?) They wanted the cop, and got him on what they could prove. Kinda like the Al Capone thing.. They could prove tax evasion.. but that is not why they wanted to send him to jail.. Same thing here.