Your thoughts on my basement plans

   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #131  
Eddie
Your bracing will want to buckle. You will need to secure it at the checker board intersections.
What is the height of basement walls?
Make your concrete as dry as you can work with.
Check price of pump verses the cost of keeping the concrete truck longer.
As curly Dave said be careful, wet concrete could easily kill you if the form fails
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #132  
Check with your concrete supplier for vertical distance a pour can be dropped without separation and I'm sure a vibrator will be recommended with a qualified operator.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #133  
Check with your concrete supplier for vertical distance a pour can be dropped without separation and I'm sure a vibrator will be recommended with a qualified operator.

The vertical fall for a basement wall will not affect the quality of the concrete. I agree the concrete should be vibrated to consolidate the material. Finding the qualified operator for vibrator can be hard, many people think they are qualified but operate it too quickly
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #134  
I helped build several man-holes in the street for the phone co. one summer. They were usually 12x16 but some were bigger. The hole was dug 2 inches larger than needed all the way around and always 12 foot deep. The walls were skimmed with a flat shovel and checked with a level to insure they stayed vertical.

The walls were then lined with 14' long 2x12's standing on end with about 2' sticking above the ground. They were held in place with 2 rows of 4" I-beams. Then the re-rod was set for the floor and the floor was poured, which forced the 2x12's tight against the soil. Now the I-beams were removed.

Next, we tied re-rod into 12" squares for the walls, built the inside forms using steel basement forms. This is a man-hole so we used the same forms for the roof of the man-hole, and it was held up with lots of 2x4's cut to length. This also tied everything together.

The walls were poured in lifts working our way to the top of the ceiling. The 2x12's were pulled out with the back-hoe and used for the next hole. And finally, sand was sprinkled in the 1&1/2" cavity left from the 2x12's.

Eddie, I am thinking you could do your hole like this but also add something like roofing felt as a barrier between the 2x12's and your plastic liner to help protect it.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #135  
I've been struggling with this. The great room will have AC ducts along the opposite wall running through the full length porch roof. The HVA system will be on that same wall. There is no way to get a duct across to the other side without it being visable. The ceiling will be solid wood and foam.

My only though is to see if I can put a pipe in the ground under the slab. I don't like this idea, but I don't know why it wont work.

Eddie, my complete house HVAC supply ducts are PVC under slab. Return in attic. That's how it's cooled and heated for less with a 2.5 ton unit that's 32 years old and that's why my basement is inset 5' on one side of the house and 3' on the opposite side. That's how ducts and water supply gets to that other end of the house. Sleeve pex water pipes under concrete too in 1-1/2" poly.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #136  
Why don't you actually talk to a foundation guy and get his opinion, specs and estimate along with your expectations? Discuss your ideas with him and see how it goes. What have you got to lose?
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans
  • Thread Starter
#137  
Eddie, my complete house HVAC supply ducts are PVC under slab. Return in attic. That's how it's cooled and heated for less with a 2.5 ton unit that's 32 years old and that's why my basement is inset 5' on one side of the house and 3' on the opposite side. That's how ducts and water supply gets to that other end of the house. Sleeve pex water pipes under concrete too in 1-1/2" poly.

Thank you, this is what I was hoping to hear.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans
  • Thread Starter
#138  
Eddie
Your bracing will want to buckle. You will need to secure it at the checker board intersections.
What is the height of basement walls?
Make your concrete as dry as you can work with.
Check price of pump verses the cost of keeping the concrete truck longer.
As curly Dave said be careful, wet concrete could easily kill you if the form fails

Good point on connecting all the bracing. That's easy to do and I can see the advantages. Thanks!!!

With all the bracing inside the room area, there will be no way for anybody to get down into there. I've used drop in concrete vibrators before and will have one for this. It's a lot of fun to see how much the concrete settles!!!!

My wall height was going to be somewhere in the 8 foot range. Then I will have a ceiling/floor over it that will be about a foot thick. I will form the outside of the pour to line up where the exterior wall will sit on top of the form. Then the liner will be attached to the OSB on the wall above the basement at least a foot up. Then I will house wrap and tape it together, then install my Hardie Lap siding over it. since the Hardie is nailed on at the top edge, that will give me at least six inches of EPDM liner up into the wall that will be 100 percent water proof. My height for the floor will be about 4 inches above grade, so that give me ten inches above grade of the liner before any nails go through it.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #139  
Thank you, that helps clarify my thought process on the pour. My plan for the forms is to build a stud wall with 2x6's and 3/4 plywood on the inside of the wall to create the form. I will drill half inch holes into the concrete slab through the sill plate of the stud wall and pin it into place with half inch lengths or rebar. This will stop the forms from sliding or moving from the weight of the concrete. The studs will be 12 inches apart. I can go closer if you think that will help. Then I plan on building a L beam along the sides of the forms every two feet. Basically screwing in one 2x6x16 onto the studs on the flat side, then screwing another 2x6 onto that one on the edge. The L shape beam along the face of the stud wall will provide a huge amount of stiffness ans strength to the forms. It will also give me a solid mounting position for bracing that will go across the length of the room. The bracing will go from wall to wall, and in my mind, looking down on it, it will look like a checker board.


How thick were you planning for the bottom slab? And, how thick are you planning for the walls? If I were designing this, I would treat the walls as a retaining wall for design purposes. when I did this those many years ago, in CA hard adobe clay, not TX clay which I have no experience with, the design called for 12" thick walls and a 12" footer in an L shape. There was #4 (1/2") bar on 12" centers along the vertical walls. This was bent into an L shape and the other leg of the L was used in the footer. While it is certainly possible to finish the footer and use the top surface as a floor, there are going to be a lot of construction activities happening on that concrete, and it may be a better idea to build the footer and walls and plan on pouring a finish slab for the floor after that. The rebar was spaced 3" from the outside of the wall, and 3" from the bottom of the footer. This dimension is important for the strength of the final wall. Use dobes, or preferably rebar chairs.

In this design, I would make the entire floor the footer for the retaining walls...

When I poured the footer I used a tapered 2 x 4 to form a key to lock the vertical wall to the footer.

2 x 6 studs on 12" centers is very close to what I did and that part worked OK. I would not pin the forms the way you describe. The reason is that there will be tremendous force on the forms at the bottom and when the concrete cures the bottom 2 x 6 will be tightly compressed between the pins and the concrete wall. The only way to get it out will be in splinters, which will also damage the plywood. Instead use the rebar dowels to pin a 2 x 4 spacer just outside of the form. The spacer will have to come out in splinters, but the form will them come free and can be disassembled for re-use. Just to be safe I would pin this on 6" centers.

During the concrete pour, the forces on the forms are hydrostatic and will be much greater at the bottom than at the top of the form. If I were doing this, I would put the L-braces at 12", 24" 42" 60" and 84" for a 96" wall. Then I would pour in lifts. When you vibrate the concrete during the placement of each lift, be very careful not to liquefy the previous lift. Just the top inch or so of it.

Think out how you are going to handle the corners very carefully before you build the forms. The 2 x 6 studs are going to have to be carefully spaced to allow a leak-tight corner. And, I would place the L-braces so that the the horizontal parts can overlap in the corners. 3/4" higher than nominal on the North & South walls, 3/4" lower on the East & West. Drill a 3/4" hole through both and drop a 3/4" bolt through to hold them together.


This is going to require a lot of lumber just for the forms, but when I take down the forms, I will use them to frame up my addition. It will be 24ft by 48ft long with 12 foot walls. So I will cut every one of those 2x6x16's down to 140 5/8 inches for the studs of my walls. Then use the rest for blocking between the studs. I am going to cover the interior walls in 3/4 inch plywood, so that will also be reused

Are you going to run the 2 x 6 braces with the 6" side horizontal or vertical? I think you want them horizontal, and screw them together at each crossing. Also, block the different courses together to help prevent buckling. Crown them down, if you know what I mean. When they come under compression, the blocking will transfer the buckling forces to the footer. Staggering the L-braces as in the paragraph above will mean that the cross-braces go over-under exactly right.

Most of the forms I have used are coated with diesel fuel before the pour, which acts as a mold release. If I was going to re-use these as walls in a living space, I would look for something which had a more appealing odor than diesel fuel or even used motor oil. Any oil will work and I think non-detergent 30 weight might be easier to live with afterward. Even better, spray them with the liquid wax intended for kitchen floors a couple of days ahead of time. Just be sure to let it dry well.

Instead of hiring a pumper, I was thinking that I could have two cement trucks there at the same time, but at either corner. I didn't think about having them go slow and doing it in lifts. That makes sense, so I will probably have to pay a little extra to keep them on sight longer then they want to be just to keep them going slowly.

Don't have two trucks at once. Only having one will slow things down considerably. Also, space out when they arrive. It will be a longer day for you and your workers, but if those forms collapse, you are going to have a huge mess on your hands.
 
   / Your thoughts on my basement plans #140  
...My wall height was going to be somewhere in the 8 foot range. Then I will have a ceiling/floor over it that will be about a foot thick. I will form the outside of the pour to line up where the exterior wall will sit on top of the form. Then the liner will be attached to the OSB on the wall above the basement at least a foot up. Then I will house wrap and tape it together, then install my Hardie Lap siding over it. since the Hardie is nailed on at the top edge, that will give me at least six inches of EPDM liner up into the wall that will be 100 percent water proof. My height for the floor will be about 4 inches above grade, so that give me ten inches above grade of the liner before any nails go through it.

Is this construction going to provide the tornado/hurricane protection you are looking for? I suspect a strong enough storm would rip that floor/ceiling right off showering the room below with all sorts of heavy/hard/sharp debris.

Would a poured concrete lid be more appropriate?
 

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