Zero Turn traction issues

[LouNY]

I had been shopping for a larger lawn mower for some time and had looked at the numerous zero turns, and the Stieners and Ventracs, thought about the power trac's, kept coming back to the front deck mowers, finally came across a couple of front deck mowers and was going to go look at them, bought the first one test drove.
I have never been a Kubota fan or a hydro stat fan, that said I now own a Kubota F2000 which is a front 72" deck on a 4wd chassis with a hydro, I got a decent deal on it I believe.
For $2000 a 4wd with a 72" deck with only 2800 hours, of all the mowers I have tried out and demo over the last 10 years I will say that this is the best I have tried until I got over the $20,000 level which I was not going to pay to mow lawn.
In conclusion if you have steep areas to mow you owe it to yourself to try one out, any 4wd front deck.

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

I love the cut, the speed and the maneuverability, but the traction (negative traction?) going downhill is near ridiculous. The only way to go down our steeper slopes is to start at a crawl and slowly speed up, or you end up skidding/slewing down the hill. And forget about stopping in the middle of even a moderate downgrade and turning to do the next cut.

Since it is "lawn" you can get away with more. I assume you don't need perfection. I'm using a Simplicity Cobalt, which is a larger cousin to your Ferris.

I have about 3 acres of lawn and about 5 acres of something approaching pasture. The lawn is fairly steep in the 15 to 20% slope. The pasture is more like 20 to 25% slope. I don't care the cut or the tire damage on the pasture area.

My solution is that I have two sets of rear tires. I use Carlisle Turf Smart on the lawn and switch out to lugged tires for the pasture. I could not find ATV type tires in my size, or I'd have tried those.

I can mow either lawn or pasture sideways with little difficulty. The big issue on the pasture is enough traction to change direction at the ends of the pass. The lugged tires help immensely. I can mow both up and down too, but its easier sideways. Downhill is much better with lugged tires, but I can skid those too if I'm not careful.

Mostly, regarding downhills, your best bet is technique. Go slow. Start turning across before trying to stop. Slowing down abruptly just skids the tires. Subtlety is your friend when slowing down regardless of terrain. I can skid the turf tires on flat land if I just chop the throttle sometimes.

I mostly mow crosswise from bottom to top. This makes your turns uphill, which is easier to control. I do K-turns uphill. Turn uphill about a row and a half, then back down while turning to align on the next pass and then forward to the end again.

There are a few spots in the pasture where I do have to mow uphill, but they are localized steep spots that are no more than about 10 or 15 feet square. The exits at the top and bottom are less steep and provide plenty of bail out room.

DNW64, when you say "steep", how steep is it? Get a 4 foot level and a tape measure and check a few spots. If you have 12 inches of rise over that 4 foot level, your slope is 25%. I'm wondering if mostly you need more seat time to get comfortable mowing sideways or if your lawn really is that steep. My first cuts were up and down hill until I got comfortable.

Also, what about mowing on the bias? 45 degrees to the slope?

 

[stevem5215]

Not really interested in buying an $8k mowing machine and having to add another $1k or more for an adaptation (Ted brakes). Turns out my z-turn seems to be able to deal with my hills, though with a pretty big learning curve, and more danger than I anticipated. Of course almost nothing is truly safe on steep hills, except maybe a Power-Trac or Ventrac.

Or a Steiner. Love my 420. When the hill gets (cutting across it) too steep you know it by the fact that you have it in full articulation with all the wheels trying to move up hill and you are still only sidehilling with it.

Steve

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I suggest trying some bar tires (sometimes called chevron tires), such as the Carlisle AT-101 or the Kenda or OTR tires with that tread pattern. The traction improvement with that tread is truly amazing.

 

[4570Man]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I suggest trying some bar tires (sometimes called chevron tires), such as the Carlisle AT-101 or the Kenda or OTR tires with that tread pattern. The traction improvement with that tread is truly amazing.

It might not be an apples to apples comparison since I have a heavy diesel powered mower, but the bar tires has helped my mower immensely. The real fine strand grass suffers a little but most other grass is fine.

 

[Texasmark]

I have the IS700Z and had the same problem. Fix costs you about a hundred bucks. Go to ebay:

2PK 22x11-8 22 11-8 22x11.-8 Golf Go Kart ATV Tire 4PLY P322 Dimple Knobby | eBay

This tire is on an 8" wheel (from ebay too) rather than the original because I wanted a soft ride since I mow my pasture with mine and heavy clay soil cracks open and makes for a rough ride. The large balloon area run at 10 psig does make a difference.

Point here is the tread design. I have pond banks running 30 degrees and couldn't mow with turfs. So I started with bar lugs and then golf cart traction tires, then other stud designs of ATV tires and currently running these and I like them. If you are careful how you turn around ZT style, you can mow your lawn without tearing it up yet hang on with a hill.

 

[Buppies]

I mow everything I can across it. Its much better than up down. ZTRs don稚 drive down hills very good. Bar tires help a bunch. This hill is 17 degrees and it痴 about the limit of what I can drive straight down when wet without losing control, but it痴 no problem sideways. View attachment 567343View attachment 567344

Same tires on our toro now almost unstoppable

 

[valdez54]

Our Z turn mower was a hazard on our many grassed slopes... I replaced rear turf tires with ATV tires running about 3 psi and the improvement is amazing...
while this does increase some lawn damage if the operator drives carefully the benefit of the improved safety is entirely worth it. Damage is usually on damp/wet grass and spinning the machine in its own length. I bought the tires on Amazon Prime for $89.00 and had our mower shop mount them for $30 more.... best move we could have made.

 

[DK35vince]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I suggest trying some bar tires (sometimes called chevron tires), such as the Carlisle AT-101 or the Kenda or OTR tires with that tread pattern. The traction improvement with that tread is truly amazing.

Sure is.
I got tired of the turf tires on my Z sliding off our hill every time.
Replaced the turfs with AT 101 bar tire and the difference is huge.
Same hills that always gave me problems with the turfs are no problem at all now.

 

[4570Man]

Sure is.
I got tired of the turf tires on my Z sliding off our hill every time.
Replaced the turfs with AT 101 bar tire and the difference is huge.
Same hills that always gave me problems with the turfs are no problem at all now.

Those are the same tires I have and if you can’t mow it with those then it doesn’t need mowed. I can push mud with the deck.

 

[Texasmark]

Those are the same tires I have and if you can稚 mow it with those then it doesn稚 need mowed. I can push mud with the deck.

Well I started out with them because they work on my tractors in getting traction. Mowing my 30 degree pond banks weren't the same as plowing a field and I slid down the banks more than I wanted. So after several hundred dollars in different tire types I settled on these and besides a nice soft ride, hold better than anything else I have tried:

2PK 22x11-8 22 11-8 22x11.��-8 Golf Go Kart ATV Tire 4PLY P322 Dimple Knobby | eBay

I have them on 2 ZTs, one weighing around 1k# and the other 1300 plus my 250#. They are spec'd for 360# at 5 psig but I run them at 10 and they support the load nicely, have sufficient lateral stability on slopes plus I get the softer ride. One ZT came with 10" and the other 12" diameter wheels. I bought new 8" wheels for these tires allowing me to maximize the balloon area (over OEM installations) which reduces the shock when driving over the cracks that are common in my Houston Black Clay soil.

The other nice thing is the shoulders are rounded, and the ground contact points are many so in mowing turf, I don't have to worry about tearing it up if I don't go nuts with quick ZTs.

 

[9973720wb19]

stand on mower is the best for hills. it's as fast as a sit down Z Turn and if you get in trouble just step off

 

[dnw64]

DNW64, when you say "steep", how steep is it?

Finally had a chance to measure it.

The steepest part on my regular mowed lawn is 42% slope. There are many sections at 30-35%. There is one area in my pasture, which I have been mowing with my tractor rather than the ZT (since my BIL wheelied the ZT going UP it...), is 52%.

 

[Texasmark]

Finally had a chance to measure it.

The steepest part on my regular mowed lawn is 42% slope. There are many sections at 30-35%. There is one area in my pasture, which I have been mowing with my tractor rather than the ZT (since my BIL wheelied the ZT going UP it...), is 52%.

With that It would be up and down, no sideways movement. In going up no problem, but going down you still have a chance of skidding. Touching the brakes initiates it, having a heavy mower initiates it, as does soft soil, or wet grass.

I have a 46" Husqvarna conventional rider that I put studs on the front (for steering traction on hillsides) and on the rear. I can sit on the side of the seat on steep hills and being light in weight it doesn't slide like the heavier machines when mowing along rather than up and down the slope. On your 45+ slopes I would use something like that and only run up and down....course these are the cheap ways out. There are some mountain climbers out there that roll over anything....if you have deep pockets. Grin.

 

[leonz]

Forgive me for asking this Texasmark,

What was it that made you shy away from the ventrac, price? With thier four wheel drive low profile tractors with front or rear mounted flail mowers they make a good
pair.

The small trailerable spyder 4 wheel drive robotic lawn mowers with the flail mower attachment are also well known for handling VERY VERY steep grades mowing a cross slopes with the winch rope attached to a secure location like a guardrail or a vehicle.

 

[dnw64]

Forgive me for asking this Texasmark,

Did you look at the four wheel drive Versatrac four wheel drive low profile tractors with front mounted flail mowers as an option? You can add dual wheels and also load the tires with windshield washer fluid for tire ballast as well as additional weight from what I remember.

The small trailerable spyder 4 wheel drive robotic lawn mowers with the flail mower attachment are also well known for handling VERY VERY steep grades mowing a cross slopes with the winch rope attached to a secure location like a guardrail or a vehicle.

As he said:

...course these are the cheap ways out. There are some mountain climbers out there that roll over anything....if you have deep pockets. Grin.

BTW not familiar with Versatrac, but Ventrac/Steiner would be a good option if I wanted to spend that kind of money. Which I don't. I'd definitely hire it out if it came to spending $20k for a mower to run 1.5 hours a week during our short Vermont Summers...

 

[John_Mc]

Finally had a chance to measure it.

The steepest part on my regular mowed lawn is 42% slope. There are many sections at 30-35%. There is one area in my pasture, which I have been mowing with my tractor rather than the ZT (since my BIL wheelied the ZT going UP it...), is 52%.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here: You do mean percent grade, not degrees, right? The numbers mentioned in your post convert as follows
30% = 17˚ (degrees)
35% = 19˚
42% = 23˚
52% = 27-28˚

I run those slopes on my Craftsman Garden Tractor regularly. I did have to put chains on the rear tires to do the steeper end of that range reliably. I've been debating getting a zero turn. Are slopes in excess of 40% (22˚) really that much of an issue on a zero turn?

 

[RalphVa]

I had the same issues with my Gravely, which is pretty low slung, too. I'd often drive it with me on the back sitting on a sulky. It would often go skidding down our back hill. It also has problems with traction going back up. Finally got an extra set of wheels for it but had decided pretty much by then that I needed 4wd.

Of course, my 4wd tractors will skid down that same hill out of control if I take it out of 4wd and forget to put it back.

Ralph

 

[dnw64]

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here: You do mean percent grade, not degrees, right? The numbers mentioned in your post convert as follows
30% = 17˚ (degrees)
35% = 19˚
42% = 23˚
52% = 27-28˚

I run those slopes on my Craftsman Garden Tractor regularly. I did have to put chains on the rear tires to do the steeper end of that range reliably. I've been debating getting a zero turn. Are slopes in excess of 40% (22˚) really that much of an issue on a zero turn?

I didn't calculate degrees. In my book 100% Percent is where 1 Rise = 1 Run. So, sounds about right.

Slopes in excess of 30% are definitely an issue for my Ferris S400. I can't speak reliably about others, although my son concurred that the first day he worked for a professional lawn care company driving some kind of professional grade ZT (X-Mark most likely) he ran into a barn because he couldn't stop going down a hill. That is the biggest traction issue for me - stopping/slowing going down hill. I really don't understand why - I can't imagine there is a "lawn tractor" alive that has more rear:front weight bias than a ZT, but I've never seen any posts about them having trouble going downhill...

 

[big bubba]

haven't read the entire post so please excuse if asked. how much of your mowing area is manageable with normal zero turn use, and how much is the slope an issue of traction? 50/50? have you considered a pro hyd walk behind mower for the slopes?
Hydro Drive Walk-Behind Mowers - Encore

the 36" hydro walk behind works wonders for my steeper pond dams, a good compliment to my other rider zero turn (80% of mowing area) something to consider.
otherwise, good luck on your traction find. my experience is than when rider zero turns start sliding sideways on wet surfaces, they just tear up the sod no matter what tread you use