Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0:

   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #171  
http://www.panduit.com/wcs/Satellit...tion_id=63&locale=en_us&pagename=PG_Wrapper#1

Here is a link to Panduit cable ties. Panduit is one of the premier makers of ties. I selected this particular page because it lists properties. Note that Nylon 6.6 does not mean it is weather resistant. Note also that all weather resistant ties are black. Just being black, however, does not mean the tie is weather resistant.
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #172  
Sticking with Panduit or a T&B product, you can find quality UV stable ties.

ex. of T&B

http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/endeca/index.cgi?a=nav&N=960+2649&Ntt=TY-Rap

You pay more for these, but you get what you pay for. "UV Black" is usually the term I look for, from non-Asian sources.

Cheap cable ties have their appropriate uses - if you just need to lace something up on a parade float to last 2 days, you don't need a MIL spec Panduit/T&B product for that use. Nothing wrong with saving money there.

Rgds, D.
 
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   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #174  
so this means we should ask for weather resistant 6.6 nylon?

Dragoneggs: I asked this before and didn't get a response. Likely you are the man here based upon
your job. So that once in a while we get something helpful in this creative thread, could you suggest what to look for, any minimal spec that we can all agree to for outside use of plastic cable ties? The podium is yours.
Ha ha, okay you hooked me... Daugen, you ask for a 'minimal spec' and I will throw out UL 62275 but before you jump on that and find yourself quickly down in the weeds wondering what the **** you are doing looking up this spec I offer this:

First of all, I try not to mix business with pleasure and tractoring is really just a hobby for me (landscaping/maintenance on my property). And I am very recent to being a proud Kubota owner but I should add that I do not rely on my ride (as many on TBN do) for a living. Cable ties have their place as many have suggested but they are not meant for securing everything... hose clamps, spiral wrap, P clamps, and more, all have their ideal functions too of course. Funny thing here... I didn't even practice what I would preach with cable ties as I recently removed all of the factory white ties with orange ties just because they look cool and my BX seemed to be calling for them :laughing: FYI... typically orange color ties are used in aviation only as temporary ties securing flight test or other wiring meant to be removed before putting in service as they don't possess properties (just as the white ones don't) for long term use depending on operating conditions.

Improved Nylon ties... such as heat stabilized will hold up better in slightly higher temp environments, and UV resistant in sunlight conditions but these will also break down over time. People think Black means UV or heat stabilized. The color guarantees nothing. More on that in a bit.

Harsh environments, such as temperatures above 180degF, strong UV radiation, exposure to chemicals such as fuel, truly demand plastics other than Nylon of any kind. The most common of these polymers are PEEK and TEFZEL. But that said, there is no one plastic that is ideal for all conditions. Take PEEK (Polyetheretherketone) for example. Wonderful plastic exhibiting high strength and ideal for high temperature environments and has high resistance to chemicals and has high lubricity. Downside is that it has lousy resistance to UV. TEFZEL or ETFE (ethylenetetrafluoroethylene) is used in high radiation environments... think space, satellites, etc.

I could go on and on about ties with its serrations/ratching on the topside vs. the inside (against the wiring) to reduce abrasion, or special buckles at right angles to prevent pinching, etc...

But... I suppose most folks here are not willing to spend a buck or more for one plastic cable tie... so that brings us back to the common Nylon ties. Unfortunately the stuff on the shelf at your local store is limited and it is difficult to even be sure what grade of Nylon you are buying... unless you buy a name brand. There are many junk molders out there with poor process control, that advertise UV grade or heat stabilized but who knows... especially if made overseas. Molding thermoplastics is not a simple act. If you want quality and the assurance that the Nylon ties indeed have the UV resistance and or heat stabilizing fillers, then look at brands such as HellermannTyton or Thomas & Betts... probably should list Panduit as well. Also look for a UL listing... Underwriter Laboratories are pretty dang good about policing their trademark usage. You might pay around 50cents a piece for these name brands though and the reality is... drum roll.... the cheap Chinese ties are probably more than sufficient for our orange machines. I have yet to hear anyone complain about failing ties in this thread (apologies if I missed it), just long tails! I do have to say that I was more disappointed in the shoddy workmanship (lack of proper trimming) than I was about the use of 2 cent ties. Honestly, how many of us would be willing to spend $25 or more on the purchase price of our tractor if there was an optional upgrade to Black UV ties???
 
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   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #175  
Thanks for the glimpse into the Material Science behind these dragoneggs. Always more to learn.... I hadn't seen the RadHard ones before.

$25 adder to a new tractor ?

Betcha Duck Dynasty could get at least $50 out of a new tractor buyer for their Duck (tm) camo version cable ties !

Just having some fun here..... ;) this topic is a good example of the engineering detail that goes into what at first seems like a simple item.

HEY, I almost forgot ! Where are the Pics of your orange zip tie Blinged out machine - we gots to see Pics !


:thumbsup:

Rgds, D.
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0:
  • Thread Starter
#176  
To OP PapaPerk: you created a monster with this post.... well done. Actually loving it as I am involved with 'cable ties' and related hardware as part of my job. I am enjoying the variety of comments and opinions. Zip ties as many call them have evolved and there are many types (some not so known to the average dude) including high tech polymers, hybrid materials, etc. Somehow I think this thread might take awhile to die. :dance1:

Thank you sir. I try! Lol
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #177  
Thanks for the glimpse into the Material Science behind these dragoneggs. Always more to learn.... I hadn't seen the RadHard ones before.

$25 adder to a new tractor ?

Betcha Duck Dynasty could get at least $50 out of a new tractor buyer for their Duck (tm) camo version cable ties !

Just having some fun here..... ;) this topic is a good example of the engineering detail that goes into what at first seems like a simple item.

HEY, I almost forgot ! Where are the Pics of your orange zip tie Blinged out machine - we gots to see Pics !


:thumbsup:

Rgds, D.
Yeah just saying that if you chose every little upgrade they could conceivably offer like special decals, brighter lights, two tone paint, paint chip protector, cooler, bla, bla, bla, your tractor would be 'cooler' but how much more effective for say 25% increase in base price.

I think alot of people take for granted the amount of thought and engineering when it comes to putting a quality product on the market. It would be easier if price wasn't an issue but it ones needs to find the sweet spot between design, durability, features and how much someone is willing to pay.

Yeah I should post a few pics but I am half way around the world in Singapore on business at the moment so I will try to remember when I return to snap a few and post.
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #178  
Ha ha, okay you hooked me... Daugen, you ask for a 'minimal spec' and I will throw out UL 62275 but before you jump on that and find yourself quickly down in the weeds wondering what the **** you are doing looking up this spec I offer this:

Fist of all, I try not to mix business with pleasure and tractoring is really just a hobby for me (landscaping/maintenance on my property). And I am very recent to being a proud Kubota owner but I should add that I do not rely on my ride (as many on TBN do) for a living. Cable ties have their place as many have suggested but they are not meant for securing everything... hose clamps, spiral wrap, P clamps, and more, all have their ideal functions too of course. Funny thing here... I didn't even practice what I would preach with cable ties as I recently removed all of the factory white ties with orange ties just because they look cool and my BX seemed to be calling for them :laughing: FYI... typically orange color ties are used in aviation only as temporary ties securing flight test or other wiring meant to be removed before putting in service as they don't possess properties (just as the white ones don't) for long term use depending on operating conditions.

Improved Nylon ties... such as heat stabilized will hold up better in slightly higher temp environments, and UV resistant in sunlight conditions but these will also break down over time. People think Black means UV or heat stabilized. The color guarantees nothing. More on that in a bit.

Harsh environments, such as temperatures above 180degF, strong UV radiation, exposure to chemicals such as fuel, truly demand plastics other than Nylon of any kind. The most common of these polymers are PEEK and TEFZEL. But that said, there is no one plastic that is ideal for all conditions. Take PEEK (Polyetheretherketone) for example. Wonderful plastic exhibiting high strength and ideal for high temperature environments and has high resistance to chemicals and has high lubricity. Downside is that it has lousy resistance to UV. TEFZEL or ETFE (ethylenetetrafluoroethylene) is used in high radiation environments... think space, satellites, etc.

I could go on and on about ties with its serrations/ratching on the topside vs. the inside (against the wiring) to reduce abrasion, or special buckles at right angles to prevent pinching, etc...

But... I suppose most folks here are not willing to spend a buck or more for one plastic cable tie... so that brings us back to the common Nylon ties. Unfortunately the stuff on the shelf at your local store is limited and it is difficult to even be sure what grade of Nylon you are buying... unless you buy a name brand. There are many junk molders out there with poor process control, that advertise UV grade or heat stabilized but who knows... especially if made overseas. Molding thermoplastics is not a simple act. If you want quality and the assurance that the Nylon ties indeed have the UV resistance and or heat stabilizing fillers, then look at brands such as HellermannTyton or Thomas & Betts... probably should list Panduit as well. Also look for a UL listing... Underwriter Laboratories are pretty dang good about policing their trademark usage. You might pay around 50cents a piece for these name brands though and the reality is... drum roll.... the cheap Chinese ties are probably more than sufficient for our orange machines. I have yet to hear anyone complain about failing ties in this thread (apologies if I missed it), just long tails! I do have to say that I was more disappointed in the shoddy workmanship (lack of proper trimming) than I was about the use of 2 cent ties. Honestly, how many of us would be willing to spend $25 or more on the purchase price of our tractor if there was an optional upgrade to Black UV ties???

Informative post.

UL62275 should go a long way towards rating cable ties and using the right one for the specific situation.
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #179  
so this means we should ask for weather resistant 6.6 nylon?

Dragoneggs: I asked this before and didn't get a response. Likely you are the man here based upon
your job. So that once in a while we get something helpful in this creative thread, could you suggest what to look for, any minimal spec that we can all agree to for outside use of plastic cable ties? The podium is yours.

Sorry I haven't been following this thread much due to the work in my shop but if I may let me put something in perspective here and I hope Mr. Dragoneggs don't mind me saying this.

When it comes to fasteners and the uses of them, their quality, their strength and the unique places on this earth and even beyond earth talking to Mr. Dragoneggs is THE best possible person to ask. I know of no other person that comes close to his knowledge of the subject or his products for that matter. ;)
 
   / Zip ties on new Kubotas?! )0: #180  
I use zip ties to build pens out of cattle panels quickly, put up hog pens quickly, and string barbed wire fast. A good solid 250 sq. ft. pen can be put up in 2 hours. I use a tool that puts 75 ft. lbs. on the tie and cuts it off square at the locking block. The tool costs a whole $8.00. The thing is any company that doesn't use these tools is pretty cheap and it makes me wonder what they made cheap that I can't see.
 

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