ZTR on hills, are they pretty safe?

[Ken45101]

I have no experience with ZTRs but I know that in our yard, I need 4wd for braking going downhill. One time the tractor (Kubota B2710, 2000#) was in 2wd and it slid downhill until I hit the fence. Broke one fence post and popped the staples out of another. That was with turf tires.

Ken

 

[bontai_Joe]

I'm not sure what ZTRs you are looking at, but some of the homeowner versions are belt driven and if the belt pops off or breaks when on a hill, the front swivel wheels will indeed swivel downhill and give you a wild ride at best. With no drive to the rear wheels, you have no steering at all. Something to keep in mind.

 

[Redneck in training]

We have front mounted Grasshopper. Our yard is quite hilly in some places about 35 to 40 deg. Those can be mowed only diagonally downhill or straight down due to lack of traction not stability issues. With front mounted ZTR with low CG you can do safely doughnuts on 25 deg hill.
That said, nothing is completely safe. ZTR are safer than anything else I suppoose (except having it done by hired hand).

 

[nomad289]

With off-road vehicles such as a 4x4 Jeep, they always recommend going straight up or down a hill---the longer wheelbase makes it more stable than the short distance between the side wheels.

I naively mowed on side hills on my ZTR, assuming if it started to tip I could quickly turn downhill, effectively increasing the wheelbase and using centrifugal force to stabilize the vehicle.

However, recently realized since ZTR's are driven/steered only by the two rear wheels, if the upper wheel starts to lift you loose all steering control so would have no ability to turn downhill !!!

On some grades I've mowed sideways but stopped and pushed on machine to see if it is getting tippy, and went slow to avoid bouncing. The previously posted idea to move at an angle to the hill would decrease the side tilt angle somewhat; but again any upper wheel slippage would result in total loss of steering control.

In summary, I think once your uphill drive wheel looses traction you're lower drive wheel will turn you uphill; which combined with the centrifugal force of quicky turning in an ever smaller radius will tip the machine.

 

[Redneck in training]

We mow a pond dam that is about 350 ft long so going straight down takes about 90 go around. Going diagonally takes about 55 rounds. Before I got "crazy" on the dam I tested if the mower would tip over. While sitting on it felt that it would tip over but when I got off and tried to lift the uphill wheel to actually tip it I was able to lift it but only with all my strength. In general I found that our Grasshopper would be very hard to tip over. Steering is another story though. I don't thing it is caused by lifting the upper wheel but by the mass of deck pulling the front downhill while both steering wheels have less traction. So when I go diagonally down I use an angle providing certain degree of control. The slope of the dam is about 35 deg I am guessing.

 

[Dargo]

We have front mounted Grasshopper. Our yard is quite hilly in some places about 35 to 40 deg. Those can be mowed only diagonally downhill or straight down due to lack of traction not stability issues. With front mounted ZTR with low CG you can do safely doughnuts on 25 deg hill.
That said, nothing is completely safe. ZTR are safer than anything else I suppoose (except having it done by hired hand).

Yes, to prove the stability point to me before I bought my first front mount Grasshopper the dealer showed me a hill where no mid mount machine could mow. He not only easily made passes on it in each direction with the Grasshopper, but stopped and made a 360 degree turn quite often to demonstrate it's stability. With the front wheels, right under your body, are the power wheels and the machine has a 'traction aid' kit that also transfers some of the front deck weight to those wheels, the machine is extremely stable on hills. It's almost difficult to turn one of them over. In over 10 years of using them I've gotten extremely bold on them, to the point where I've slid sideways all the way down a steep hill, without the machine even feeling remotely unstable.

 

[Redneck in training]

Yes, to prove the stability point to me before I bought my first front mount Grasshopper the dealer showed me a hill where no mid mount machine could mow. He not only easily made passes on it in each direction with the Grasshopper, but stopped and made a 360 degree turn quite often to demonstrate it's stability. With the front wheels, right under your body, are the power wheels and the machine has a 'traction aid' kit that also transfers some of the front deck weight to those wheels, the machine is extremely stable on hills. It's almost difficult to turn one of them over. In over 10 years of using them I've gotten extremely bold on them, to the point where I've slid sideways all the way down a steep hill, without the machine even feeling remotely unstable.

That is true. They are impossible to turn over because they slide before they flip. But you can fall forward from it going down steep hill. Actually my wife put up the mower (the tractor part) on its nose one time going downhill and fell of it. I have not idea how she did that I just saw her off it while it still stood up in vertical position. My theory is that the deck was not properly latched. Our mover has no ROP and seat belt.

 

[Ken45101]

Yes, to prove the stability point to me before I bought my first front mount Grasshopper the dealer showed me a hill where no mid mount machine could mow. He not only easily made passes on it in each direction with the Grasshopper, but stopped and made a 360 degree turn quite often to demonstrate it's stability. With the front wheels, right under your body, are the power wheels and the machine has a 'traction aid' kit that also transfers some of the front deck weight to those wheels, the machine is extremely stable on hills. It's almost difficult to turn one of them over. In over 10 years of using them I've gotten extremely bold on them, to the point where I've slid sideways all the way down a steep hill, without the machine even feeling remotely unstable.

After reading the comments here, we went and looked at a Grasshopper front mount mower this morning, with traction kit. Yes, you are correct, it felt stable. However it seemed to lack traction on a hillside at the dealership. It couldn't go sideways on the hill and couldn't go up it, the salesman had to back up the hill. (Yes, the grass was tall and somewhat wet, but it spun the uphill wheel until it got to bare dirt.)

I have my doubts that it could replace my Kubota 4wd compact tractor (B2710) on hills the hills in our yard. Yes, the maneuverability would be nice, but not if I can't get the job done.

 

[Dargo]

After reading the comments here, we went and looked at a Grasshopper front mount mower this morning, with traction kit. Yes, you are correct, it felt stable. However it seemed to lack traction on a hillside at the dealership. It couldn't go sideways on the hill and couldn't go up it, the salesman had to back up the hill. (Yes, the grass was tall and somewhat wet, but it spun the uphill wheel until it got to bare dirt.)

I have my doubts that it could replace my Kubota 4wd compact tractor (B2710) on hills the hills in our yard. Yes, the maneuverability would be nice, but not if I can't get the job done.

I have never been on a B2710, or even seen one that I'm aware of, so I don't know their capability. I've probably had 15 or 20 tractors before that were all 4wd or, to be more correct, front wheel mechanical assist, machines. I've probably had close to the same number of zero turn radius mowers as well. Speaking from only my own observations and experience, I'm completely comfortable taking the front mount Grasshoppers in places where I'd not take any of my tractors except going straight down with them. Actually, I have taken my JD 5525 up some pretty steep hills brush hogging but that's with an 84" bucket loaded full of dirt to give me more weight out front. The down side to that is that with an 8' Brown rotary cutter on the rear, loaded R1 tires, the cab, FEL and a couple thousand pounds of material in the bucket, I'm leaving some pretty nasty ruts unless the ground is like concrete. Obviously, that particular setup would be useless for finish mowing if I wanted any yard left when I was finished.

Your best bet may be one of the front mount 4wd mowing machines. I've considered both a Kubota and JD version. If I ever get to the point where I need a replacement for one of my Grasshoppers I'd definitely consider something like this John Deere commercial products: Features for 1545 Series II Front Mower I've only seen 4wd versions and they are mowing beasts. However, they do cost a bit more. Bummer. I'd love to be able to have my front mount ZTR and not be exposed to the dirt, grass trimmings, bugs and heat. I think I could really get used to that!

 

[Ken45101]

I have never been on a B2710, or even seen one that I'm aware of, so I don't know their capability.... Speaking from only my own observations and experience, I'm completely comfortable taking the front mount Grasshoppers in places where I'd not take any of my tractors except going straight down with them. Actually, I have taken my JD 5525 up some pretty steep hills brush hogging but that's with an 84" bucket loaded full of dirt to give me more weight out front.

The Kubota is a 27 HP 1800# tractor with a 5' mid mount mower. Typical mid sized compact tractor.

I just measured, our yard has 25-27 degree hills. The Kubota does fine up or down on the hills with just regular turf tires (unloaded), no front weights at all. One of the steepest areas has rose bushes at the top, so that limits the approach.

Of course, being a tractor, it doesn't mow around things real well, that's why my ears perked up when I read about the Grasshopper. It certainly cut nicely and my wife liked it's maneuverability, but seeing the performance at the dealer's location, I'm not convinced that it would work in our yard. Not sure whether to ask the dealer to bring it out for a demo, or to just pass on the idea and save the money