Dual Brakes on an HST tractor

[RobertN]

I'm not ready to replace the mechanicals yet for sure. In regards to the electronics, there are 10's of thousands of tractors, skidsteers, compact track loaders, excavators ect that have run electronics and joysticks for years now. I would make a guess they would add a lot of expense too, expense the typical tractor owner might not want(me included).

I did like the twin joysticks on the ASV RC30 and CAT267 tracked loaders I have used better than the traditional foot pedals and control sticks on the Bobcats I have used. Bobcat makes joystick controls; I have not had opportunity to try their version though.

Kinda like cars and pickups. Filled with electronics, work great, but can leave you on the side of the road for a skimpy connector. That results in a real expensive repair bill.

Unfortunately for that contractor, it just as easily could have been his truck broke on the side of the rode with a computer or harness issue, while he was towing the excavator to the job site.

While pilot control joysticks are surely the direction things will go in the future, I still have some reservations. He asked if I knew anything about New Holland skid steers. He said his skid steer's computer was on the fritz and he was not pleased. Evidently he had a loose connector somewhere in his harness and it would work sometimes and sometimes not. He was really stressed that he had a job to do and his equipment was failing.

What I got from all of this is that mechanical connections to levers and joysticks should only be replaced with the most bullet-proof electrical connections when everyone goes to pilot type control joysticks. Perhaps multiple redundancy is needed in critical circuits. Chasing electrical problems is NOT something most field operators can do like they can with direct mechanical links.

 

[JD755]

On my TYM T330hst it has dual brake pedals on the left side. On the right side is the forward and reverse pedal along with a master brake pedal. That is the main one I use and it is also the parking brake. I rarely use the turning brakes but it is nice to have when you need them. I mainly use them in the winter when turning in close quarters. I like not needing to use the cruse control when using the turning brakes. I feel it is much safer when you dont need to use the cruse control and turning brakes together.

Your tractor has an identical pedal setup as mine. I use them the same way.

 

[ovrszd]

Having said that, I personally rarely use them on my HST L5030. I do use them on our M8540 as we use it a bit differently than the L5030 and it won't turn as sharp with the steering wheel as the L5030 being a bigger tractor.

I think this point is usually overlooked. I say the need to use the brakes is a direct reflection on the useage of the tractor. I was just talking to my BIL about this yesterday. He has a 30hp NH. No way you can use the brakes and the HST at the same time. Not even enough platform room to get the left foot over there. He said it's no big deal to him because he rarely uses them and added the comment that with 4wd they just aren't needed. I had just spent the weekend using my Kubota with FEL in steep timber terrain and used my brakes constantly. I added that I couldn't use a tractor without the ability to use individual brakes. Different uses require different abilities. My BIL does lawn care with a RFM.

This is often a hotly debated issue and I have been essentially told I didn't know what I was talking about, so keep that in mind.

I like you TripleR, we think a lot alike.

This thread has not created the usual heated debate on this issue. But for us brake users, we got one admitted convert (Robert N)!!!

 

[MossRoad]

I liked the setup on my old late 70s IH2500b HST. It had separate side by side forward and reverse pedals on the left side and split brakes on the right side. There was a differential lock heel pedal on the right side as well as an accelerator pedal on the right side, too, in case you needed more RPM than the throttle lever was set to. Nice functional machine.

 

[TripleR]

I like you TripleR, we think a lot alike.

This thread has not created the usual heated debate on this issue. But for us brake users, we got one admitted convert (Robert N)!!!

It really is hard to make an informed decision or "helpful comment" on these subjects unless you have used both types and in a variety of situations.

Many make up their mind and recommend one or the other based on their own limited experience and often is heard, "It works great for me" without that person ever having tried anything else. I am sure I have done this, but am sure not going to point it out.:laughing:

I "think" people with more experience and doing harder stuff will be more inclined to use and benefit from split brakes as we learn over time ways to improve performance.

Learning to use our tractors to their fullest potential is an ongoing pursuit for many of us and high hours mean increased performance. Using split brakes properly, like anything else takes time as you can run yourself into a tree or off into a pond by hitting them too hard.

Brake sensitivity also plays a part in how useful they are. If you have ever driven an old Case, prior to Case IH, you will know "brakes" are just a figure of speech, so no matter what you do, unless you have Arnold Swartsenegger legs, pushing on them is not going to result in anything but bulging veins in your forehead. On our newer Case brakes were either locked or not, nothing much in between, so you better be serious about stopping before touching them. It also had a pretty long wheelbase and even locking one or other rear wheels just resulted in a long trench of torn up ground and little deviation in course.

Pretty much all of the Ag tractors still have split brakes, but turning one of them by using them is just going to tear up a lot of ground and have little real effect due to their size and weight. The farmers I know never bother with them.

Yep, we probably do think a lot alike which depending on your/our fellow TBN members may be good or bad.:laughing:

"I say the need to use the brakes is a direct reflection on the usage of the tractor."

I agree and will plagiarize, but will expand it to: "I say the need to use the brakes is a direct reflection on the tractor type and usage of the tractor with possibly operator experience thrown in." Usage would, in my opinion, be primary with the others only considerations.

All of the above is conditioned on the fact that I continued to try to improve my work performance up until the day I handed my credentials in and will continue to try to learn to operate tractors better until I quit and reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[jenkinsph]

I agree with Triple R, and would add that I use the steering brakes primarily when using the loader bucket to smooth out dirt and gravel. Don't have a need anymore to turn tight at end of rows and certainly never do this on any of the finished lawns.

I should add that the older 820 tractor has hydraulically actuated brakes which work very well, the newer 110tlb and 4520 have mechanically actuated brakes which don't have as good a pedal feel.

 

[Mechanos]

Same here, I have used the split brakes by pushing forward on the cruise control with my left hand and split braking when pushing snow/ice on the driveway, it is about the only time I use them, ordinarily don't need the split brakes with a hydro, as you can reverse instantly and "see-saw" so easy with the hydro and the steering wheel for your sharp turning needs.
Some have "crossed over" and used their left foot for split braking duties, (the Kubota shuffle) and a few are nimble enough to use their right foot for both the hydro and the brake pedals.. Not me. It just isn't a big deal to me, and I have never cared for brakes on the left side. Some people left foot brake with an automobile also, but to me brakes belong on the right foot where my "muscle memory" thinks they are.

James K0UA

I have the best of both worlds.... hydro pedals on the right, brake pedal on the right (above the hydro pedals), and split brake pedals on the left. When I need to stop quickly and muscle memory takes over, my right foot finds the brake pedal with ease, but I also have the option of using the split breaks if needed with my left foot.

 

[Rancher Ed]

I liked the setup on my old late 70s IH2500b HST. It had separate side by side forward and reverse pedals on the left side and split brakes on the right side. There was a differential lock heel pedal on the right side as well as an accelerator pedal on the right side, too, in case you needed more RPM than the throttle lever was set to. Nice functional machine.

This sounds like an ideal settup, I wonder why no one builds them like this any more?

I have the best of both worlds.... hydro pedals on the right, brake pedal on the right (above the hydro pedals), and split brake pedals on the left. When I need to stop quickly and muscle memory takes over, my right foot finds the brake pedal with ease, but I also have the option of using the split breaks if needed with my left foot.

This sounds like a close second. You have your split brakes on the left where you can use them for back draging with the loader or plowing snow but there is a brake pedal on the right should you need it.

Ed

 

[lilranch2001]

I see. So when in split mode they may not disengage my cruise control. That would make sense to me and, admittedly, I just took delivery of my Bobcat CT235 on Friday and have neither split the brakes, nor tried the cruise control yet. It would seem logical that the cruise would disengage if one depressed both pedals, but not if only one pedal was depressed. I should go try this. :thumbsup:

I was told that Bobcat does not recommend splitting the brakes n the 235, and if I remember correctly I did read not to do it in the owners manual

 

[k0ua]

I have the best of both worlds.... hydro pedals on the right, brake pedal on the right (above the hydro pedals), and split brake pedals on the left. When I need to stop quickly and muscle memory takes over, my right foot finds the brake pedal with ease, but I also have the option of using the split breaks if needed with my left foot.

That sounds like the ideal setup. to me.

James K0UA