New Home Build

[drumminj]

Our house build is over $300/sq ft. This is with some nice finishes (3/4" hardwood floors, soapstone counters), but a lot of it is the rise in cost of materials and labor. The only thing that seems to have gotten cheaper in the past year is lumber.

Our builder wasn't very good in guiding us on where the costs lay and what makes sense to try to cut and what is "cheap". We've learned some as we've gone along:

* 2nd floor space is "cheap" as it doesn't increase the foundation and roof size. 1st floor space is more expensive in this case.
* Corners on the exterior add complexity and thus cost
* Many things (for us) are priced by sq ft: electrical, paint, some of the trim.
* HVAC is totally up to you. We are paying 2x the original estimate for inverter heat pumps vs single-speed AC + furnace, even with a lot of work (and cost) gone into additional insulation and air sealing. We could have just gone with a pretty basic 16 seer system instead
* Metal roofing (standing seam) is really expensive right now. Almost 3x what a good shingle roof costs
* "textured" hardie siding was considerably more expensive than the "smooth" siding (still no clue why)
* Brick facade on the water table is cheaper/easier than stone. The material costs may be similar, but stone adds complexity in several other areas we're learning.
* You may not realize when you're specifying something non-standard (aka "custom") and price goes up a lot more. We've found it helpful to ask for the price of what we want, and also something more basic to get a sense of this (we're on a cost+ contract)

The upside is it's pretty cheap (comparatively) to make improvements to lower the operating cost for the house - 2x6 walls instead of 2x4 for better insulation. Basic air-sealing details (tape the OSB sheathing seams, for example).

The time to complete certainly can be hard to complete, as weather, product availability, and contractor schedule are all factors right now, at least in my area. It's better than it was, but we've still seen long lead times and some down time waiting for contractors to free up/be able to make it out

 

[MGP4506]

I can see your frustration, and it seems to be that you don't have a comparison you can trust....don't even know standard pricing for standard levels of construction.

And I'm not as much help as I wish I could be because my situation doesn't translate well. We spent way too much time and took way too long...and had an absolute wonderful time doing it.

Do you have detailed drawings of what you want to build? You didn't say, but that is the first step.
I paid $10K to have detailed architectural drawings of a possible house done and stamped.... and then went over each area of the proposed construction with a spreadsheet and a builder friend making estimates and pricing options. Yes, I paid him thousands for his time and it was worth every penny.
And no, I didn't build that house. I might have, but instead, I used what I learned to draw up what I really wanted.... a large open house that I could grow old in & enjoy.

So I'd say you need to have or find or hire another set of eyes - someone who knows building in your area - and the two of you need to go over the drawings and put numbers to them.

So Let Me Throw it Back to Our Fellow TBNers... and ask them how they got their estimates?

rScotty

Yeah, we have to have Architectual drawings to build in our area. We had to change them a couple of times due to building codes and new set-back requirements that weren't an issue when we started but apparently a major issue. But now we have our final design. I have spoken with a retired builder (I wish he was still building) what gave me the range of $175 - $225 per square foot. The reason for that range is he doesn't know all the current cost of materials which some things are down and some are up. I also talked to another guy that only does remodeling and he feels that is also a good range. I am ok with that amount but not $250 - $300 sf.

I welcome all input because I Truley have no idea on new builds.

 

[rScotty]

Yeah, we have to have Architectual drawings to build in our area. We had to change them a couple of times due to building codes and new set-back requirements that weren't an issue when we started but apparently a major issue. But now we have our final design. I have spoken with a retired builder (I wish he was still building) what gave me the range of $175 - $225 per square foot. The reason for that range is he doesn't know all the current cost of materials which some things are down and some are up. I also talked to another guy that only does remodeling and he feels that is also a good range. I am ok with that amount but not $250 - $300 sf.

I welcome all input because I Truley have no idea on new builds.

Having completed drawings is huge. I think our completed drawing package came to maybe 12 or 20 sheets. One each 24"x36" for all elevations, int. walls, foundation, floors, framing, plumbing...etc. Once you have that you can really get to work. You are now asking the right questions at the right time.

OK. It sounds like you have something that a retired builder can use to talk about - that is wonderful.
Do you think you could hire him for a short week to go over your project & then discuss it in detail? It helps that you aren't shy about being naive. Most learning takes place in the first couple of steps.
You could ask him, and let him decide if some real study with him would be doable or worthwhile.

Everything that drumminj says in #21 above is right on. Like his, our build was also custom and over $300/sf so not directly comparable. Costly in spite of wife and I working on it - I did the well, in-floor heat, & water treatment - she did hundreds of hours of sanding, varnishing and buying.

Pay special attention where drumminj says, "The upside is it's pretty cheap (comparatively) to make improvements to lower the operating cost for the house - 2x6 walls instead of 2x4 for better insulation. Basic air-sealing details (tape the OSB sheathing seams, for example)."

That is so true. The things that count are often real bargains,: Double fastened rafters & sill plates, thicker walls with more insulation, wrapping and taping everywhere, battens instead of staples in the atttic insulation, double thick door/window jams. Treated lumber deck support, cement board soffits & fire blocks, insulated stove pipe....... the list goes on and on and each one is likely less expensive than an upgraded refrigerator for the kitchen. But it takes a professional builder to mention them. Your builder friend will have his own list of things he did to his own house.
The key is that none of those things can be added later except the refrigerator.

rScotty

 

[m1garand762]

Thankfully We have never had a tornado or a hurricane hit. Although in 1972 when a hurricane came up the coast and went inland in NY there was a majorr flood but it never made it to the house. Although the property is elevated h

I am asking for details in their bid. The issue I am finding is the allotments for the foundation, electric, plumbing ect. are all over the place. So I have been breaking what bids I have so far to a price for square foot. What I am having an issue with I don't know construction prices. I have no idea if the foundation should cost me $50k or $75k. HVAC $20k or $50k. The big range is the allotments for kitchen and baths. I do know you can spend a fortune on them.
I have also been given a time frame to complete once started 6 months or less to over 8 months. So I am just trying to figure what the average overall price per square foot currently is. I know I should be looking at current low end about $200 and higher end $250 per square foot. But based off the 3 prices I have received back they have been $225 to over $300 per square foot. I just don't understand how there can be such a range. I have visited a few homes they have already built and they all look great and the current home owners raved about the builders. The only issue I found with the $225 per square foot company is they can't start building until next year and they have the lowest allotment for the kitchen.

I can’t speak for your area but I have but 9 houses on the side for people the final price depends heavily on many variables like flooring and countertops. With metal roofing and siding being popular now that is another variable. The last house I did had relatively expensive granite and a metal roof with the particular septic needed for that lot it came In around $175. Per square foot with a full basement and well. I am getting ready to break ground on my own home built ICF I’m not going to mention the price but it’s going to be around that for 2400 square feet with well and septic. I am not taking any consideration to concrete prices into this because I know it’s going to come in higher than what I originally figured. Also the 1200 foot driveway with almost 900 tons of stone isn’t in that price

 

[ovrszd]

There are too many variables for a conclusion on an Internet forum.

Build what you want. Swallow the cost p/sq ft.

Very few people will tell you the truth about their costs anyway.

 

[drumminj]

Do you think you could hire him for a short week to go over your project & then discuss it in detail? It helps that you aren't shy about being naive. Most learning takes place in the first couple of steps.
You could ask him, and let him decide if some real study with him would be doable or worthwhile.

Huge +1 on this.

I'm sure it's different based on region, but the impression I've gotten in my area is builders are very short-sighted and focused on the immediate task/stage and really don't look ahead to have an overall plan or avoid what would be obvious issues/conflicts if they thought about the intersection of framing/insulation/electrical/hvac/plumbing all at the same time. As an engineer, this has driven me crazy.

Before you break ground, have your hvac and insulation planned out - duct size, register locations, return locations and size, etc. Do you need floor trusses to accomodate ducting? Energy heel trusses to allow full depth of attic insulation over the top plates? Yes, you may need to adjust slightly based on actual framing details, but you'll know where the laminated beams are up front so you can plan around them, etc. Do you have a range hood? Where does that vent/how does that work with the framing? Big enough range hood (>400cfm) to require make-up air? How/where is that piped in?

Having these thought through and planned up front will save you money in re-work/re-framing-etc. Not $50/sqft in savings, but several thousands of dollars in my case (in extra cost, as these things were not considered and we had to cut/modify some trusses as well as floor joists).

If you're interested in the efficiency/comfort side of things as rScotty and I are touching on, happy to recommend some books and other websites to read up on.

 

[rScotty]

There are too many variables for a conclusion on an Internet forum.

Build what you want. Swallow the cost p/sq ft.

Very few people will tell you the truth about their costs anyway.

My impression is his quest is more for information than conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong.

That is well said: To build what you want and not let cost p/sq ft be the ruling factor
Satisfaction lasts far longer than the memory of the costs.
- Shouldn't that apply to buying tractors too ?

In our case - maybe in many cases - building costs are not deliberately false, they are simply hard to figure. While building we ran across crazy bargains and to also made on-the-fly expensive changes. Most TBNers are also do-it-yourselfers. How does one figure his own time?

Building a home should be an adventure. If your build is like ours, you will make some expensive mistakes and find incredible bargains.
rScotty

 

[Williy]

If I was to build another house I would be using rock wool for insulation, fire proof, sound proof and great insulation! It will cost a little more but its well worth it.

willy

 

[yanmars]

I have used mineral wool/rock wool. It is a good product but some feel it is more itchy than fiberglass.

 

[ovrszd]

My impression is his quest is more for information than conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong.

That is well said: To build what you want and not let cost p/sq ft be the ruling factor
Satisfaction lasts far longer than the memory of the costs.
- Shouldn't that apply to buying tractors too ?

In our case - maybe in many cases - building costs are not deliberately false, they are simply hard to figure. While building we ran across crazy bargains and to also made on-the-fly expensive changes. Most TBNers are also do-it-yourselfers. How does one figure his own time?

Building a home should be an adventure. If your build is like ours, you will make some expensive mistakes and find incredible bargains.
rScotty

My wife is picky with numbers. That's always an asset. She counted everything.

For example, on the internet an owner might quote $125 p/sq ft. I might ask, did that include your sewer system? They will 99% of the time say, no that was separate. Not in my wife's math.


Not calculating "everything" including graveling the driveway is how over runs occur.

Very rare for an owner to ask for a completed cost estimate. If they get one they rarely use that builder because he was too high. Very common for them to use the cheapest bidder, then over run making up for all the things he didn't factor in his "cheapest" bid.