New Home Build

[ovrszd]

If I was to build another house I would be using rock wool for insulation, fire proof, sound proof and great insulation! It will cost a little more but its well worth it.

willy

Insulation and quality windows/doors are the cheapest part of a quality build.

 

[rScotty]

My wife is picky with numbers. That's always an asset. She counted everything.

For example, on the internet an owner might quote $125 p/sq ft. I might ask, did that include your sewer system? They will 99% of the time say, no that was separate. Not in my wife's math.


Not calculating "everything" including graveling the driveway is how over runs occur.

Very rare for an owner to ask for a completed cost estimate. If they get one they rarely use that builder because he was too high. Very common for them to use the cheapest bidder, then over run making up for all the things he didn't factor in his "cheapest" bid.

She is right of course. That's how to do it. But when she starts doing that, the conversation shifts more toward the total cost of construction for a custom rural house. That is going to be a whole lot different than trying to compare house prices using dollars/sq ft. Rural construction differs from suburban.

I guess you could compare the rural house itself without any extras to a suburban house. But the rural house also has to budget for a whole lot of extra expenses that don't fit well with SS/sq.ft. calculation.

Perhaps the only time that $$/Sq ft. is really a useful measure for directly comparing costs is when comparing nearly identical houses in a suburban subdivision. In a subdivision the house itself my differ, but everything else - utilities, lawn, garage, & lot size is all the same.

Unlike rural houses, suburban houses don't have wells & water treatment, septics, back-up generators, long driveways, alternative heating, large gardens, wood lots, outbuildings, detached garages, ADUs, Tractors! - and all the rest that go along with rural living.

But by being picky with numbers anyone can still compare costs. It's just more complicated than $$/ft.

rScotty

 

[drumminj]

Unlike rural houses, suburban houses don't have wells & water treatment, septics, back-up generators, long driveways, alternative heating, large gardens, wood lots, outbuildings, detached garages, ADUs, Tractors! - and all the rest that go along with rural living.

But by being picky with numbers anyone can still compare costs. It's just more complicated than $$/ft.

Agree on this. Suburban homes pay a monthly fee for infrastructure services. For a rural build, you need to build those in up front and then just pay the electricity to operate (well pump, septic, etc), which does bring up the $$/sqft for the build. And don't forget running electricity to those outbuildings, the larger electric service..buying and burying a propane tank...

 

[ovrszd]

Not sure I understand where this has went.

So suburban homes don't have to pay to hook up to the burb system?

Burb homes don't pay for electricity they use?

Burb homes don't have to pay to run electricity to their outbuildings if they want it?

Burb homes don't have to buy and/or bury their own propane tanks?

Incredible.

 

[rScotty]

Agree on this. Suburban homes pay a monthly fee for infrastructure services. For a rural build, you need to build those in up front and then just pay the electricity to operate (well pump, septic, etc), which does bring up the $$/sqft for the build. And don't forget running electricity to those outbuildings, the larger electric service..buying and burying a propane tank...

I'm not following you on this. Oh.... I think I see.....you are ahead of us and are now talking about monthly utility bills.
We aren't there yet. The OP hasn't built anything yet. We were discussing how to consider the square foot costs of building a house and sort of diverted into $$/sq foot for suburban vs rural building costs.

Monthly bills are inevitable, but they are not building costs. The question is, do contractors include all the right costs in their estimate of $$/sq ft. bid?

Suppose you pay (as we did) about $30K to have the utility company put in poles and wires to bring electricity to our property. That is certainly a rural building cost, but should it be considered when calculating $$/sq ft?
I think not....

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Not sure I understand where this has went.

So suburban homes don't have to pay to hook up to the burb system?

Burb homes don't pay for electricity they use?

Burb homes don't have to pay to run electricity to their outbuildings if they want it?

Burb homes don't have to buy and/or bury their own propane tanks?

Incredible.

Around here the differences can be huge. A suburban house within the town limits has to pay about $10K for a water & sewer tap fee. Hooking up to those services is part of the building cost.

Outside the town limits the water and septic costs are more like separate projects. That's all I was saying. Agree?

 

[drumminj]

Not sure I understand where this has went.

So suburban homes don't have to pay to hook up to the burb system?

Burb homes don't pay for electricity they use?

Burb homes don't have to pay to run electricity to their outbuildings if they want it?

Burb homes don't have to buy and/or bury their own propane tanks?

Incredible.

If you're referencing my post, let me see if I can clarify my statements....

1) Yes, suburban homes have to pay for electricity they use...hence the "electricity to operate" referenced above. Also the water they use, at higher rates than the cost per gallon of water from a well (storm drain fees, etc).

2) Rural houses without city infrastructure have to pay to drill the well and put in a septic field, which costs a lot more in construction, whereas those with city infrastructure "just" need to pay to connect to the existing infrastructure, which is generally less expensive than the cost of the well + pump and septic system.

3) Suburban homes are far more likely to have natural gas lines to connect to, vs needing a buried propane tank. Again, connecting to the existing gas infrastructure is far cheaper than the cost to buy and bury a tank (Esp. at current prices!)

4) Suburban homes are less likely to have outbuildings (generally smaller lots), and thus no need to run electricity to them, the cost of which is likely rolled up in the initial electrical install, raising the $$/sqft for the initial build. Yes, if the suburban home has outbuildings and wants to run electricity to them, I'd expect the cost to be similar.

All of which is related to the side topic of comparing cost/sqft on builds as it depends on many factors, one of which is whether it's a rural, suburban, or urban build. I was just ageeing with rScotty's comment in this regard, and adding some more details based on my experience building.

Sorry for the confusion and addition to sliding the thread!

 

[ovrszd]

Around here the differences can be huge. A suburban house within the town limits has to pay about $10K for a water & sewer tap fee. Hooking up to those services is part of the building cost.

Outside the town limits the water and septic costs are more like separate projects. That's all I was saying. Agree?

Yep. I agree.

My wife, on the other hand, separated this way. If we had not built the house would we have that expense? If the answer was no, then it goes in the cost of the build pile.

 

[ovrszd]

If you're referencing my post, let me see if I can clarify my statements....

1) Yes, suburban homes have to pay for electricity they use...hence the "electricity to operate" referenced above. Also the water they use, at higher rates than the cost per gallon of water from a well (storm drain fees, etc).

2) Rural houses without city infrastructure have to pay to drill the well and put in a septic field, which costs a lot more in construction, whereas those with city infrastructure "just" need to pay to connect to the existing infrastructure, which is generally less expensive than the cost of the well + pump and septic system.

3) Suburban homes are far more likely to have natural gas lines to connect to, vs needing a buried propane tank. Again, connecting to the existing gas infrastructure is far cheaper than the cost to buy and bury a tank (Esp. at current prices!)

4) Suburban homes are less likely to have outbuildings (generally smaller lots), and thus no need to run electricity to them, the cost of which is likely rolled up in the initial electrical install, raising the $$/sqft for the initial build. Yes, if the suburban home has outbuildings and wants to run electricity to them, I'd expect the cost to be similar.

All of which is related to the side topic of comparing cost/sqft on builds as it depends on many factors, one of which is whether it's a rural, suburban, or urban build. I was just ageeing with rScotty's comment in this regard, and adding some more details based on my experience building.

Sorry for the confusion and addition to sliding the thread!

No apology necessary. Good discussion of things a first time builder won't think of.

1) I'm on a rural electric coop. I don't know what my rate p/kw is. I have a transformer box and meter pedestal in the backyard. Cost me $1,250 to get those set. Then I buried wire to my shop and house. Short runs. I'll guess another $500.

2) I'm on a rural water district. Cost me $2,500 to get a meter set. Then I ran a buried pipe to my shop/house. Guessing another $500. Septic is a lagoon which I built. Guessing cost to plumb to it at $400.

3) No NG. Bought a 1000 gallon propane tank for 1,000. Guessing $300 for hookup. This past year I used 1050 gallon of propane at $2.15 p/gal.

4) Again, with my picky book keeper wife, if the outbuilding has electricity because the house was built, it counts.

 

[drumminj]

No apology necessary. Good discussion of things a first time builder won't think of.

1) I'm on a rural electric coop. I don't know what my rate p/kw is. I have a transformer box and meter pedestal in the backyard. Cost me $1,250 to get those set. Then I buried wire to my shop and house. Short runs. I'll guess another $500.

2) I'm on a rural water district. Cost me $2,500 to get a meter set. Then I ran a buried pipe to my shop/house. Guessing another $500. Septic is a lagoon which I built. Guessing cost to plumb to it at $400.

3) No NG. Bought a 1000 gallon propane tank for 1,000. Guessing $300 for hookup. This past year I used 1050 gallon of propane at $2.15 p/gal.

4) Again, with my picky book keeper wife, if the outbuilding has electricity because the house was built, it counts.

That's a lot cheaper than what we're seeing. Current quote is $8k for a 1000gal tank, installed. Cost us $2300 to run the copper from the road to the transformer pad. Total (conventional) septic cost is estimated to be about $30k (that work should be starting soon). We do have to pump uphill to the field.

When did you build, ovrszd?