ROPS question - intended design?

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have a semi-mount 4 bottom plow I pull behind my 4020 J.D. The semi-mount does not use the toplink )</font>

Notice I mentioned 3pt equipment, and correctly connected. i never mentioned semi-mount equipment, or no toplink.

Soundguy

 

[Wannafish]

I understand your mention of 3 points. Since the plow was manufactured by John Deere, I have to assume they considered it to be "mounted correctly" when connected per their directions.
I will concede that when a toplink is utilized with the use of the lift arms (hence "3 points"), the top link can help from back flipping.
We are talking about somewhat different things and I didn't want someone reading this to think that if they just hooked a chain to the toolbar mounted between the lift links (being as they are a part of the 3 point hitch system) to pull something that they would necessarily be safe.

Now, can we agree to disagree? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Since the plow was manufactured by John Deere, I have to assume they considered it to be "mounted correctly" when connected per their directions.
)</font>

I agree.. but it's not a 3pt mount, the way it is described.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( We are talking about somewhat different things )</font>

Yep.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I didn't want someone reading this to think that if they just hooked a chain to the toolbar mounted between the lift links (being as they are a part of the 3 point hitch system) to pull something that they would necessarily be safe.
)</font>

That's the catch.. a drawbar mounted between the lower lift arms in only utilizing a part of the 3pt system. It is in fact, only utilizing 2 links.. and is thus not "3pt"

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now, can we agree to disagree )</font>

I don't think we have to. Really sounds like we are in agreement about 3pt equipment .. it's just this other 2pt setup and semi-mount / towed/sulkie setups that were clouding the issue.

Soundguy

 

[AndyMA]

Guys

ROPS and FOPS are designed to meet specifications and test procedures specified by numerous safety and testing agencies world wide. NEITHER 3 PT hitch or Front End loaders are designed or allowed to be considered when a ROPS or FOPS is designed. And BTW something like 70% of all tractor rollovers worlwide are fatal when neither FOPS or ROPS structures are used or are used without seat belts.
Also note that most of the machines discussed on this board are just lightly used toys when considered with the wide range of industrial traction type machines used world wide. Please remember. Also an individuals personal experience does not equal a safety standard or Predict the way a given class of machine in motion will perform under all circumstances (like falling down a cliif for instance). To see what a ROPs can do, I believe New Holland has a video of a TN65? doing a complete roll out their somewhereon the web. And finally yes,a ROPS has to not only support the static load of an upside down machine (with the force vector changing rapidly both in magnitude and direction (solid angle) but it much also take the much larger dynamic (shock) load of the actual initial impact and the following additianal secondary impacts(which vastly exceed the static weight load) ( and for you engineering types out their, I do know that I am talking mass, not weight)

Sorry for the rant, however when it comes to safety of the people reading our boards, heresay info just doesn't cut it in my book. I believe it's up to me and the other folks on this board who are trained professionals in the fields to speak up.

I'm just retiring after leading teams at 10's of companies shipping millions of products worldwide and believe me theres nothing like designing and shipping products in high volume world wide to give you an vast education and gray hair (no hair). A safe good nite to all.

Just retired Andy ( a little early I know at only 54, but don't worry I've have another life and you loyal TBN members will be involved if you so choose...stay tuned.

Operating Woodstock Valley Tractor
Specializing in Classis Tractor Rebuilding
and manufacturing parts for Antique Iron
oh yeah, almost forgot for those who know my love for speed, we also build openwheel race car chassis and complete cars

 

[kenmac]

Is this the site? ROPS

 

[davesisk]

Wow! Seeing it on video gives a new perspective. These overturns happen quickly. That didn't look like that much of a slope for the side overturns!

Dave

 

[kenmac]

I think that I read somewhere that said it only takes 3/4 sec. for a tractor to reach the point of no return after it starts a back flip& 1 1/2 sec to turn all the way over . Too quick for someone to react.

 

[kenmac]

I found the site tractor back flip

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ROPS and FOPS are designed to meet specifications and test procedures )</font>

This line is about the only one in your entire message that I understand.. the rest don't seem related in any way to the discussions that are in the previous messages in this thread.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sorry for the rant, however when it comes to safety of the people reading our boards, heresay info just doesn't cut it in my book. I believe it's up to me and the other folks on this board who are trained professionals in the fields to speak up )</font>

Hersay?

I'm not sure about your tractor.. but my manual , in the "safety" section, describes all the various safety features the tractor is equipped with. The 2nd feature is listed as
"Hitch Design" " Drawbar linkage is designed as a built -in safety feature. If the front end should start to raise under load, the drawbar is rapidly lowered which greatly reduces the effectiveness of the force tending to overturn the tractor."

That's a direct quote from the manual.

There is a section down the page that references pulling, and states not to pull from an area above the centerline of the axle, or from the toplink, but only from the properly setup drawbar and hitch system, for maximum safety.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( NEITHER 3 PT hitch or Front End loaders are designed or allowed to be considered when a ROPS or FOPS is designed.)</font>

I went back and re-read all the mesages. i didn't find one that said a 3pt hitch or front end loader was designed to be used in place of a rops/fops.

And for your information.. in rops/fops design, tractor and implement weight ARE factors.. so I'd have to guess that defacto, the weight of implements makes a huge difference on rops specs, ( a fel would be an implement.. and that affects tractor weight ). My NH manual lists how much weight can be added to the tractor for the rops to still be efective.. etc.

Was this post for real? or was there no one else to pick on? I'll say it again.. I didn't see any references to anyone saying that if you had a 3pt hitch.. you didn't need a rops.. or that by having a 3pt hitch, the rops could be designed 'weaker'.. etc. My post said that the 3pt hitch design, when used correctly, was a safety enhancer.. not a replacement for any other safety gear.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[txhawg]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My post said that the 3pt hitch design, when used correctly, was a safety enhancer)</font>

No, your post said

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The 3pt hitch was partially designed to stall a back flip, as long as it was properly connected.)</font>

If something is even remotely designed as a safety device, it is regulated, legislated, has certain specifications it has to meet to pass some sort of government certification, and is always plastered with numerous stickers showing shadowy stick figures getting mutilated from improper use. I see no stickers anywhere on my three point hitch, and search as hard as I can, nothing in my manual stating the 3pt is designed as a safety device.