Buying Advice Tractor buying Advice. 3,4,5 family tractors. Help deciding what I need.

[ArlyA]

I'm not sure what a "3" bucket is... The loaders maximum capacity is designed into it. If you have the 3 series, it will only lift 1300 via loader. That doesn't mean you can break something or tip the machine over. Most people learned how the tractor is squatting and can guess its loading. Most tree trunks I find can be scoped up via smaller bucket or even pushed along without ever lifting them. We plan on getting a clamp shell style bucket so we can grab slash or limbs and get them moved.

My issue is the same as most here. I know two tractors would be best but with a $500+ note on it. Renting something bigger when needed is just not something I will easily be able to swing.

My next issue is guessing weights. I see myself second guessing weights and using the Fel / loader a lot less for fear of hurting the tractor.

For instance if we are cutting trees into 6 foot chunks to bring to the road, would a 3 bucket lift those safely etc.

 

[iKloke]

I'm not sure what a "3" bucket is... The loaders maximum capacity is designed into it. If you have the 3 series, it will only lift 1300 via loader. That doesn't mean you can break something or tip the machine over. Most people learned how the tractor is squatting and can guess its loading. Most tree trunks I find can be scoped up via smaller bucket or even pushed along without ever lifting them. We plan on getting a clamp shell style bucket so we can grab slash or limbs and get them moved.

Sorry, I mean the 3 series tractor bucket. I was looking at a 3049R and the same bucket with the clamp as well.

If going new it seems my two options would be the 3049R or the 4066R.

 

[LD1]

My next issue is guessing weights. I see myself second guessing weights and using the Fel / loader a lot less for fear of hurting the tractor.

Dont worry about the machine. The machine has a hydraulic relief valve. It wont lift anything that will hurt itself. Just make sure you have ample counterweight on the back.

For instance if we are cutting trees into 6 foot chunks to bring to the road, would a 3 bucket lift those safely etc.

Hard to answer that question How big is the diameter? Big difference between moving 6' chunks of 18" diameter vs 6' lengths of 30" diameter???

And what species? Pine or cottonwood or poplar??? or we talking oak or hickory?

The 1300# lift spec is also mis-leading. The H160 loader for example.....is rated at 1360# to MAX height at the pin. But it can lift 1700# to a height of only 59". And the breakout force is 2800# at the pins, and 2000# at 500mm forward. Thats the loader strength at ground level. As you see, the higher you lift it, the weaker it gets. Lets say you need to move 1800#. We know that it will do that at ground level, but not at 59". So likely you will be able to lift it, and somewhere around 40" or so....it will just run out of power.

Limiting logs to 6', and assuming wet heavy green logs (55# per cu ft), and using quick attach pallet forks and not clamp on (gets the load closer and ditches the dead weight of the bucket)....I'd say you would have no issues lifting and shuttling around 32-33" logs at 6' length. Maybe even a little more.

 

[iKloke]

Dont worry about the machine. The machine has a hydraulic relief valve. It wont lift anything that will hurt itself. Just make sure you have ample counterweight on the back.



Hard to answer that question How big is the diameter? Big difference between moving 6' chunks of 18" diameter vs 6' lengths of 30" diameter???

And what species? Pine or cottonwood or poplar??? or we talking oak or hickory?

The 1300# lift spec is also mis-leading. The H160 loader for example.....is rated at 1360# to MAX height at the pin. But it can lift 1700# to a height of only 59". And the breakout force is 2800# at the pins, and 2000# at 500mm forward. Thats the loader strength at ground level. As you see, the higher you lift it, the weaker it gets. Lets say you need to move 1800#. We know that it will do that at ground level, but not at 59". So likely you will be able to lift it, and somewhere around 40" or so....it will just run out of power.

Limiting logs to 6', and assuming wet heavy green logs (55# per cu ft), and using quick attach pallet forks and not clamp on (gets the load closer and ditches the dead weight of the bucket)....I'd say you would have no issues lifting and shuttling around 32-33" logs at 6' length. Maybe even a little more.

In the 3 series? and they are pine trees and about 40 years old. That is great knowledge on the buckets. I intended on lifting them enough to get them off the ground and to the ditch.

 

[LD1]

Whats the diameter of these 40-year old pines?

It seems there are 2 options for the 3-series loader. The truest measurement of what the loader can lift is the breakout force. Thats the power its got to "just" get something off the ground. Most of us arent gonna be lifting a log to maximum height, so that figure....while important if you are loading trucks or something....is mostly usless. The 59" measurement is a good measuring point as well.

the actual capacity you will be able to lift and shuttle around.....I would guess to be somewhere between the pin and 500mm forward number on breakout force. Thats assuming you use quick attach pallet forks and not clamp on ones.

The 2 loader choices:
....................breakout at pin.....................breakout 500mm forward.................average of the two
H160...............2855.............................................2032......................................2443
H165................3327............................................2418......................................2872

And two options for 4r-series loader
H180MSL...........3835...........................................3337.......................................3586
H180NSL.............4017.........................................3029.......................................3523

I'd feel pretty confident saying that you could move a 2500# log with a 3-series......or a 3500# log with a 4-series.

How that relates to some green pine at 6' lengths......and pine has ALOT of moisture when wet....when dry its about 50% lighter....

2500# log at 6' is approx 40" diameter log
3500# log at 6' is approx 48" diameter log

 

[iKloke]

Whats the diameter of these 40-year old pines?

It seems there are 2 options for the 3-series loader. The truest measurement of what the loader can lift is the breakout force. Thats the power its got to "just" get something off the ground. Most of us arent gonna be lifting a log to maximum height, so that figure....while important if you are loading trucks or something....is mostly usless. The 59" measurement is a good measuring point as well.

the actual capacity you will be able to lift and shuttle around.....I would guess to be somewhere between the pin and 500mm forward number on breakout force. Thats assuming you use quick attach pallet forks and not clamp on ones.

The 2 loader choices:
....................breakout at pin.....................breakout 500mm forward.................average of the two
H160...............2855.............................................2032......................................2443
H165................3327............................................2418......................................2872

And two options for 4r-series loader
H180MSL...........3835...........................................3337.......................................3586
H180NSL.............4017.........................................3029.......................................3523

I'd feel pretty confident saying that you could move a 2500# log with a 3-series......or a 3500# log with a 4-series.

How that relates to some green pine at 6' lengths......and pine has ALOT of moisture when wet....when dry its about 50% lighter....

2500# log at 6' is approx 40" diameter log
3500# log at 6' is approx 48" diameter log

Man you are a great library of knowledge.

I will measure them out but it is my land so I can fell them, cut them, limb them and let them dry a week or two before moving them easily enough if that would help.

I am sadly behind on what a lot of things mean currently. I am going to research FEL, what it does and means. MmM, I assume this is the middle mower which I think I would prefer a 7 ft pull behind, though I need to make sure that a 3 series will pull that and the pallet forks as people refer to them often and I do not understand the differences.

I have not been around tractors since high school 25 years ago so forgive my lack of knowledge.

 

[ArlyA]

This past summer we rented a YTM which had a 35hp power plant and seems to be pretty close to the JD 30 series tractors. Doing this for the whole summer has prompted us to move towards the purchase of a tractor which we're looking at now. With it, we pushed and lifted more dirt and rocks that I thought it could possibly do. Pushed over whole trees while looking for gravel. They might have bad 6" stumps at the most. (OK it was over a sand pit Pushed around rocks that the loader couldn't lift which must have weighted 2000lbs. Nonetheless, it did much more work than I dreamed possible with this garden tractor sized little thing. I grew up in the Ag industry so its baby sized to me.

 

[iKloke]

This past summer we rented a YTM which had a 35hp power plant and seems to be pretty close to the JD 30 series tractors. Doing this for the whole summer has prompted us to move towards the purchase of a tractor which we're looking at now. With it, we pushed and lifted more dirt and rocks that I thought it could possibly do. Pushed over whole trees while looking for gravel. They might have bad 6" stumps at the most. (OK it was over a sand pit Pushed around rocks that the loader couldn't lift which must have weighted 2000lbs. Nonetheless, it did much more work than I dreamed possible with this garden tractor sized little thing. I grew up in the Ag industry so its baby sized to me.

That is my background as well. Between 4H, FFA and working fields growing up. I feel like I would break these like a toy.

That said, maybe it is more capable than I think.

 

[LD1]

MMM is a mid mount mower.

There are really only two kinds of pallet forks. There is quick attach forks/frame.....in that you remove the loader bucket and attach the forks. Page 8 of JD brochure John Deere

The other kind are called clamp on. In that they clamp on over your existing bucket edge. That shifts the load about 2' farther foward....which reduces capacity significantly....as well as the weight of the bucket that isnt doing anything. Clamp on forks would probably come close to cutting your lift capacity in half.

That brochure is where all the loader specs I posted are as well.

 

[iKloke]

MMM is a mid mount mower.

There are really only two kinds of pallet forks. There is quick attach forks/frame.....in that you remove the loader bucket and attach the forks. Page 8 of JD brochure John Deere

The other kind are called clamp on. In that they clamp on over your existing bucket edge. That shifts the load about 2' farther foward....which reduces capacity significantly....as well as the weight of the bucket that isnt doing anything. Clamp on forks would probably come close to cutting your lift capacity in half.

That brochure is where all the loader specs I posted are as well.

Well that clears up a lot quickly, Thank You.

So then I want the actual forks vs the ones on the buckets. Easy enough. Is The Fel easy to explain? Also they suggested the middle PTO / deluxe package which adds a 3rd hydraulic if I was going with the MMM but so am not sure on needing it without.

I am thinking a pull behind would be more reliable but I am new to the MMM and it just seems flakey but that is with no knowledge of how they really work.

Something else added a 3rd hydraulic in back as well? I intended on reading up on it this weekend but maybe it's an easy thing to explain?

Trying to see what options I want it will want once I understand them. It sounds more and more like a 3 series will do it for me if I am smart.