Building A small pull pan Type scraper

[earthface]

Building A small pull pan Type scraper

Ok here is what I would be interested in knowing.
Back in the 50's my Dad designed and built 2 different wheeded pan type scrapers. 1 2 wheeled 1 4 wheeled. They eventually went on to be commercially made machines. I have 1 of each machine the #2 2 wheeled prototype and 1 of the commercial made 4 wheeled models. I use them both esily pulled by my MF 35 38hp. I can esly move 15 yds per hour with the 2.5 yd machine.
Even by todays standards the 2 wheeled machine is an advanced design, loading from the front bottom, unloading from the back bottom both processes work very fast and are precission spotting. I also have all the building notes and all the original sketches that he made them from. The 2 wheeled machine holds 1.25 yards the 4 wheeled machine holds 2.5 yds. My question is this if I made new CAD drawings for either of these would anyone be interested in buying sets of construction drawings for either and what would be a price that someone would pay. This will be no easy task. I am open to all opinions here. Thanks

2 wheel scraper picture
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/879843-Frnt%202%20wheel%201ydcrp.jpg

4 wheel scraper picture
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/879825-Rear%204%20Wheel%202.5%20YD.jpg

 

[Farwell]

Is there a patent on the scrapers?
I see drawings for sale on Ebay and the Internet. Most of the time the drawings are sold for under $20.
The scrapers sound interesting and if they can be build with out a major amount of tools and machinery I am sure that quite a few TBNers will be interested, me included.
Farwell

 

[earthface]

At the time both were patented by my Father. But have long ago expired. The 2 wheeled scraper ceased production around the early 60s the company disbaned, and no one else ever produced that scraper again and used ones of the era are scarce, they were made in up to 4 yds 6ft cut.. The 4 wheeled machine has a simuliar machine still in production smallest being 3 yds 6 ft cut much to big of a cut for a small tractor. Sells new for around $8000 USD. Either of these could be made for less than $1000 using NEW material in a home welding equiped shop with little out source work and little or no machining with the use of standard of the shelf parts. Both are hydraulic powered units.

 

[RonR]

I'm probably the weird duck here, but I don't need detailed drawings and blueprints to build stuff. Now I'm talking simple designs, like drag harrows, carryall implements and such. I don't need specific dimensions generally if I know the approximate size, such as 6ft wide by 2ft deep and 2 ft high.

It's nice to know the specifics when you get to lift linkages and such, but for me anyway, some nice detailed sketches and pics would be all I'd need/want. I wouldn't want to pay for production drawings when I could get by with sketches.

But that's probably just me....................

You have something from your Dad that you can be proud of!

Ron

 

[earthface]

Me too I just build stuff from a sketch on a piece paper.
However both these scrapers have loading and dumping sequencing linkages that are quite critical in demenisional accurcy to get to work properly with out a print. And most demension changes on them will affect the linkages. These machines work so well I just thought others may be interested in them. The new cost or even the lack of commercial availablity small wheeled scrapers just about put them out of reach the small tractor user.

 

[Farwell]

Ron,
When I would plan a project in the past I would do detailed drawings, (back before CAD) I found that it took me more time to do the drawing than it would to build the project so I too like sketches, working models and photos.
I have an older version of Autocad and Autocad lite but never took the time to learn either one of them.
I haven't looked at the Google Drawing site yet but I have added it to my favorites.
Farwell

 

[PILOON]

Me too!
I'm in that see and sketch club.

On the other hand I also would be keen on such a idea, scrape and scoop as you describe and would no mind spending a few $$ to get some detailed pics but would not generally need depailed plans as I probably would modify anyhow to fit my available hydraulics or whatever wheels I
might have that would be appropriate to the project.

On the other hand reading a lot of posts on TBN I realize thet we (the see and sketch club) are in the minority judging by some of the questions and requests for more and more details pics from lots of members.

One question that I would pose is;
How much more productive would the scoop be in comparison to a FEL equipped with a tooth bar?
Also;
How efficient is it in hard material, or soil with embeded stones?
Does it have a tooth bar for the tough soils?

Even this post has got me thinking of an old horse drag scoop that I have that someone welded lift arm pegs onto the sides.
Bet I can make that into a drag scoop, but how to dump without getting off of the tractor.

Keep us posted on what you might decide to do.

 

[earthface]

OK here is a picture of the 4 wwheel scraper
(see click attachment)

 

[earthface]

Re: Building A small pull pan Type scraper *DELETED*

Post deleted by earthface

 

[RonR]

Someone posted a link to this from TBN a while back. I always thought this would be a cool implement IF I had a need for it.

web page

Ron

 

[PILOON]

Thanks!

Kinda what I expected to see.
Basically we see these (bigger) behind big bulldozers and often pushed as well.
While a cool idea, I can not see my 20 HP pulling this in my type of soil conditions as the cutting edge would bounce off of each and every 6"rock in its path.
Heck, even my FEL (48" wide) deflects off of a 4" stone without the tooth bar.
But great for loam and sandy soils, I'd think.

 

[earthface]

Ron I seen those before and I think that maybe the only small machine avaible the 4 ft cut sells for more than $6000. USD.
Also the lack of a front closing gate is a BIG problem as a lot of the dry soil will sluff out during transport and worse if the groung you are driving on is rough. It also will not move dry gravel. Now I have never used that model, but I have that problem if my front doesnt close. I had a lot of problem with both mine when I just got them out of stoarge as they had rust but after much use they work great. No front gate big problems.
It may have been somthing like it but these have never before posted on the web and I only took these pictures a few hours ago they are as they set at my farm this very minute. But like I said for years both of these model were built commercialy for years but no longer.

 

[JoeinTX]

The scraper is the best kept secret in earthmoving. Now, it's not really a "secret", but it's use is something that has waned for the small operator.

Years ago, the "Fresno" as it's called (essentially the 2-wheeled unit pictured above w/o the wheels) was king behind animal or tractor power. I still have one and find it useful in some situations. The use of small dirt-pans for CUTs is rare. A dirt-pan is a fantastic tool and a dirt tank (or "pond") can be built with one of these by the small owner in decent time and much fun versus a dozer. The combination of dirt-mowing and compaction versus size is impressive. You don't see anything less that 3 yd capacity today, and that's rare.

 

[earthface]

PILOON:

These scrapers have gone through some of the most rocky and stony ground soil that Neb, Wyo and WA had to offer. Now my farm has rocks but not as much that these have been through.
I have loaded rock as big 14 inch 50 lbs each with the soil with either of these machines. Last winter when it was sunny I cut soil that was frozen soild. They seem to either roll rocks in or pass over it and catch the rock when it is exposed enough. Both these machines had set for the last 35 years unused at my brothers place. It wasnt untill I got this farm and needed to have such machine that I brought them from stoarge. Now I seen my Dad use them but I was just a little kid then. We only kept them because they were Dads machines. And we all heard the story of them many times. I just recently descovered the construction notes of them in Dads old papers. I have both a 8 ft 4 way back blade and box scraper both of which I quickly found out the limitations of both. It is when a guy needs to move dirt more than a couple hundred feet or move dirt across a road or field that these machines shine. Also the amount of dirt that can be moved. Last summer I moved more than 1200 yds in just a few days. This year I will finish the job with about 2500 yds left to do. Then this farm will be ready to irragate. I also built the road grades needed here.

 

[drmiller100]

those things are pretty cool.

a front end loader on a small tractor is 1/2 yard bucket. If we can really get 2 yards, then that is 4 times as fast. Also, because you are spanning, it would be a LOT easier to make things flat.

if we are doing 2 yards, that is like 5000 pounds of dirt. there would be some leverages involved so the thing would really dump given hydraulics.

 

[CTyler]

I would love to have something like that, need it actually, but can't spend the 6k+ they want for a small scraper. I ended up buying a small 4000# dump trailer that will hold 2 yards. Between that and the bucket thats 2.5 yards at a shot. Its a lot faster than just the bucket but takes a lot of time(to much) out the the cycle to hook/unhook the trailer for loading.

Several hundred+ yards of dirt have been moved but when you have to move a 1000 yards its to slow. I'm hiring someone to clean out one my terraces for that reason.

I cleaned out one of the other terraces but spent way to much time doing it with the FEL, BB and DT. The dirt needed to be carried several hundred+ feet each time. Other areas need the dirt carried a lot farther. Like the catch dam and check dams that have been silting up since the 60's. Bringing in big equipment would realy tear stuff up if you could get it in there to begin with.

Building one is within the realm of possibility. This has been strongly considered over the last year since I have a welder, torch, bandsaw etc.. and some skill to go with it.

Having some plans would put it over the top and be a winter project to use next year. CAD plans would be nice but not needed if the drawings are fairly detailed.

 

[JoeinTX]

I love these little units and I want to upgrade both tractor and dirt-pan someday to the 3yd size. Currently, the NAA can handle the 1-1.5yd fresno though I've considered modifying it to do more.

I prefer the front dump myself for what I do with it.....empty, level, and pack at the same time. I've cleaned out a small tank with it (using a small, 5 bottom chisel to help out with loosening the soil) as well numerous dumps and road maintenance. These will pick up loose caliche gravel. Rocks are a problem, but, when aren't they? For the amount of material I can move in a single pass they are worth their weight.

The DB scraper is new to me and look very, very interesting.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[earthface]

He is a scan of an early prerun Ad cut For the 2 wheel scraper

 

[earthface]

Picture of 4 wheel scraper loaded full from using today

 

[GeneD14]

I saw this used scraper for sale and it doesn't look like it is as well engineered.
Scraper 4 Sale