N2DFire
Platinum Member
Yupp -I did it "My Way".
I started out on this project thinking I could do this cheaper than buying the W.R. Long kit. At the end of the day I did come in slightly cheaper in terms of actual dollars spent (I came in even better if you deduct for things I have included in my cost that aren't in the pre-made kit, like hose protector, mounting blocks, etc). But what I learned is that the dollars you save may not offset the sweat you spend & you can't put a price on the learning curve of "On-the-fly" designing. If I had it to do over again there are a few things I would do different but I still think I'd build rather than buy. After all, the experience & knowledge I gained has value too.
So - First the "parts list"
The Grip
I opted to use the John Deer grip as well & used the parts list from Speedex thread on his 3rd function build here:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/349492-l3200-3rd-function-build-3.html#post4317876
I bought all my parts from greenfarmparts.com and (with a 5% off discount code I found) the total cost w/ shipping was $75.38
*Note - not sure if his list is wrong or if the design changed but I ended up with an extra 37M7356 screw that I didn't need.
The Controller Card
As Speedex mentioned in his post, the switches in the JD grip will not withstand the current the solenoid requires. Rather than use 30 or 40 amp automotive relays (which also push the limits of the switches) I opted to build my own relay module.
Not shown here but I covered the back side in epoxy to help insulate & secure all the jumpers.
I purchased all the parts from DigiKey.com for $16.06 w/ shipping and assembled the card myself.
If I had it to do over again, instead of the screw terminals I think I would just install pig tails w/ 2 & 3 pin connectors on them instead. It would have made the board smaller & easier to lay out and then installing would have been easier as well.
The "Idiot Switch"
In a thread started by my father (referenced below under The Infamous Adapters) countrybumpkin stated he added a master cut off switch to his set-up to avoid any inadvertent operation of the solenoid when nothing is connected to the 3rd function (thus dead heading the system). We liked the idea so I added one to our set-up also.
Lowes - $9.00 for weatherproof toggle switch (could have gotten cheaper from digi-key but it was a "need it right now item")
Servalite Model #: 884415 - Lowes Item #: 75678
The Solenoid
I did a fair bit of Google Searching and found this one from Fremont Industrial Supply (fremontindustrialsupply.com) for $118.43 shipped
D03 hydraulic solenoid valve 4 way 3 position, P open to Tank with ports A & B blocked 12 VOLT DC
SKU: HD-3C6-G02-LW-F-DC12*
The Subplate
Here's where things got interesting. Even before we knew exactly where we were going to mount it, we knew space & hose routing was going to be an issue. For that reason I wanted a subplate that had the ports on 2 sides instead of 1 port per side.
As you can imagine these were not quite as easy to come by, and once I did find it due to the amount of extra material & machining required to get the ports on 2 sides - it wasn't cheap.
I found what I wanted at magnaloy.com
D03 Side Ported Subplate. PN: SP-A03P6-1/Z $71.24 w/ Shipping
http://stage.magnaloy.com.mytempweb.com/catalog/manifold-1/Mnfld.37.pdf
Note - I went with 3/8" NPT ports (P6) rather than 1/2" (P8) because P6 was an in stock size and P8 was special order with a 2 week lead time. This comes into play later with hose & fitting selection
Tractor Supply - $3.67 for the Tee Nuts, bolts, washers for mounting the Subplate
The Infamous Adapters
Boy was this ever the biggest part of the learning curve ever - mostly due to my own stubbornness.
On the CK35 (and others in the series I presume) there is a hard line from the Power Beyond port on the loader valve to the rear 3pt lift. This line has Banjo style fittings on both ends. I didn't want to have the tractor down for a day (or longer) to actually pull one of the bolts and take it around to see what it was (and always trying to save a buck I wanted to order online). You can follow the hijinks if this adventure on Dad's thread here if you're really bored.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/356319-third-function.html
Cliff Notes version - this thread is a Metric M18 x 1.5 thread which will require an adapter fitting to your favorite flavor of threads. I went with NPT almost exclusively and here I went with 1/2"
For the 1/2" version the part numbers are:
Parker - M18-1/2F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-08
If you'd rather use 3/8" then they are:
Parker - M18-3/8F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-06
I ended up finding mine at local place (my new favorite hydraulic shop BTW) for $11 something each plus tax. Grand total for 2 was $23.28 (cheaper than Discount Hydraulic before shipping)
Hoses
Here is the scariest part of the project where a small error can cost you several dollars.
I bought all the hoses locally (not from my new favorite hydraulic shop). I expected local to be higher than mail order & in hind sight probably should have shopped around a bit more (might have found my favorite shop a lot sooner). I am trying to avoid the feeling I got "taken" but I think I got taken.
$362.59 total (w/ tax) for the following (all Parker Branded and all w/ hose protection installed)
(1) 24" long 1/2" hose w/ 1/2" NPT Male 90 deg elbow swivel on one end and 3/8" NPT Male swivel on the other ($53)
- 1/2" 90 to metric adapter on loader valve & 3/8" to P port on subplate
(1) 24" long 1/2" hose w/ 1/2" NPT Male on one end and 3/8" NPT Male swivel on the other ($35.63)
- 3/8" from T port on subplate & 1/2" to Metric adapter at 3pt connection
(1 ea) 76" & 74" long 3/8" hose with 3/8" NPT Male 90 deg swivel on one end and 3/8" JIC Female 45 deg elbow on the other (76" - $ 72.85 and 74" - $71.98)
and
(2) 3/8" JIC Male to 3/8" NPT Male adapters ($1.92 each)
- 3/8" NPT Male 90 deg swivel to A & B ports on subplate & 3/8" JIC Female 45 deg elbow w/ adapter to loader tower
(2) 88" long 3/8" hose with 3/8" NPT Male on both ends ($53.52 each)
- these go from the coupling at the loader tower to the bulkhead on the loader cross bar.
Misc Hardware and fittings
All from discounthydraulichose.com ($82.45 w/ shipping and after deducting for wrong BSP fittings that were sent back)
(1) 3AGF3-AG3F3 | Set of 3/8" Couplers with 3/8" NPTF Threads - $13.58
- Standard Ag couplers for bulkhead on loader
(4) 5409-06 | 3/8" NPTF Hex Socket Plug - $0.88
- Just bought these to help keep crud out of the subplate during fabrication, not *needed*
(2) 5502-06-06 | 3/8" Male NPTF x 3/8" Female NPTF 90ｰ - $5.30
- 90 deg fittings for bulkhead mount
(2) 600-06-06S | Set of 3/8" Hydraulic Quick Disconnects (Steel) - $37.20
- These match the Kioti factory disconnects at the loader tower. Used these for interoperability. Could substitute something cheaper.
(3) BE-T3075 | Twin Support Clamp, OD = 0.750" - $11.19
- Hose clamps for loader arm
The Fabrication & Assembly process
The factory grip knob is molded on. Take a razor knife and split it as deep as you can along the seam front & back, then peel it open.
Next grind the sides of the flat to be the same width as the rest of the shaft and the JD grip will drop right over it. The top hole of the grip lines up with the existing hole and all you need to do is drill a new second hole. It's still a slight bit "wobbly" and I may go back and add a piece of rubber tubing as a bushing but it's really not noticable when you're working.
Once I was done here I ran the wires down the stick and (rather than mess with the inner workings of the base) I routed the wires under the 3pt & rear remote control cover by milling a small notch in it with the dremell tool (I did remove it for this). I was planning on wrapping the wiring and the stick in one big piece of split loom but I didn't have any w/ large enough diameter.
From here I pulled power for the circuit board from the Customer Use connector talked about in this thread.
www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/162860-customer-use-fuse-ck27-where.html
I cut off the connector and spliced in to the wires. The 12V + sided runs over to the "idiot switch" and back then along with the ground wire over to the controller box. Everything is enclosed in 1/4" wire loom.
Now we need a place to mount the solenoid & subplate.
I already knew I wanted someplace protected and had ruled out mounting under the tractor near the loader valve already, but once the solenoid & subplate arrived I knew I was going to need a lot of space. SO... off came the seat. I still think that the bracket holding the hydraulic filter would have been a good location but honestly we just don't have the "heavy duty" tools one would need to drill into steel that thick (not to mention how much more disassembly would be needed to gain good access to that area) - so we opted to use the space on top of the transmission housing.
We ended up using the existing threaded holes already in the housing and fabricated a metal mounting plate for the subplate & solenoid to set on. The initial plan was for the subplate to sit directly on this plate but (as you will see) it ended up needing to be spaced up a bit. This means our initial mounting plate is too thin & allows too much flexing so we are in the process of fabricating a thicker one.
I didn't think to get this shot until after a lot of work had started so if you look you can see the Metric to NPT adapter & hose already in for the 3pt side. More on this guy later, but since we're already talking about the adapters, lets jump over to the loader valve and install the one there next.
I went with the adapter and a 1/2" NPT 90 Deg swivel fitting on this end of the hose. In case you can't tell from the picture, it's tight in there. Very very tight in there. I ended up installing the adapter into the loader valve and then I pulled the three bolts holding it to the mount loose so I could wiggle the valve out ever so slightly to allow the swivel fitting to squeeze in and line up. Once everything is tightened up there is just enough clearance to keep anything from rubbing but a little re-design in this area could be a good thing.
Ok - time to play let's connect the hoses. Here's where the learning curve gets steep.
This is a view from the rear of the tractor looking forward. Just so we all have our bearings, the left side of the subplate is the A (rear) and B (front) ports and the right side is the T (rear) and P (front) ports. If you can't tell (or aren't familiar with the model) the Diff lock linkage is disconnected from the pedal because it's in the way of the hose from the loader valve to the P port. For next time this hose should have probably been 6-12" longer to allow better routing. Since I had it made "special" with a 3/8" fitting on this end I'm not yet sure how I'm going to fix this one. I may just take the hit and have my new favorite shop fab a new one a little longer.
Next the line from the T port to the 3pt connection. If you opt to follow this, take my advice and at a minimum put a swivel on the 1/2" end. Also with a little more time & engineering this could be replaced by a hard line but without being able to fabricate on site or transport the tractor to a shop - I didn't want to even begin to attempt this via trial & error. So I ended up using the "clover leaf" method.
Next the A & B lines. The 90 deg swivels on this end made life a LOT easier. The hoses just make a quick up and over and right back out along the side of the tractor.
Here they are running over the loader valve and then they follow the existing lines up the loader tower.
They are zip tied in for now. I went with JIC on this end because the ultimate plan is to fabricate a new plate that will hold all 6 disconnects and the 45 JIC made the cleanest bend & mimicked what was already in place. Also I used the same disconnects here to match the kioti factory ones.
The hoses running up the loader arms are a tad long but it's easier to cut & re-crimp than it is to stretch so I allowed extra when I measured. Once we get the other hoses mounted in place I'll have these re-done.
So what about the other ends? The ends where the magic happens?
Well the lines just follow the existing hoses and are zip-tied in place for now. I had planned on mounting hose clamp blocks on the loader arm but after looking again I don't think I'm going to bother. I know zip-ties don't have a great lifespan in the sun so I'll probably replace them with universal hose clamps and call it a day.
As for the bulkhead...A couple 3/8" elbows, some washers, a set of standard 3/8" Ag couplers, and a couple pieces of scrap metal and ..viola Bulkhead.
I am in the middle of designing / installing a better bungee system using one of the (now) extra hose clamp blocks, an eye bolt, and the bungee strap but I'm waiting on new hoses for the grapple (EA found a production issue and is sending me a new set). Soon as they get here I'll add in a (hopefully) better hose management system and add some more pictures.
Well I know this was a pretty tedious write up. I wasn't intending for it to be step by step instructions but I wanted to share more than just a couple quick snaps. Hopefully this will help the next person that's on the fence and afraid to "do it yourself" and my learning curve will make things a little easier.
Thanks for reading thru all this and thanks for all the help, advice, and information shared along the way.
I started out on this project thinking I could do this cheaper than buying the W.R. Long kit. At the end of the day I did come in slightly cheaper in terms of actual dollars spent (I came in even better if you deduct for things I have included in my cost that aren't in the pre-made kit, like hose protector, mounting blocks, etc). But what I learned is that the dollars you save may not offset the sweat you spend & you can't put a price on the learning curve of "On-the-fly" designing. If I had it to do over again there are a few things I would do different but I still think I'd build rather than buy. After all, the experience & knowledge I gained has value too.
So - First the "parts list"
The Grip
I opted to use the John Deer grip as well & used the parts list from Speedex thread on his 3rd function build here:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/349492-l3200-3rd-function-build-3.html#post4317876
I bought all my parts from greenfarmparts.com and (with a 5% off discount code I found) the total cost w/ shipping was $75.38
*Note - not sure if his list is wrong or if the design changed but I ended up with an extra 37M7356 screw that I didn't need.
The Controller Card
As Speedex mentioned in his post, the switches in the JD grip will not withstand the current the solenoid requires. Rather than use 30 or 40 amp automotive relays (which also push the limits of the switches) I opted to build my own relay module.
Not shown here but I covered the back side in epoxy to help insulate & secure all the jumpers.
I purchased all the parts from DigiKey.com for $16.06 w/ shipping and assembled the card myself.
If I had it to do over again, instead of the screw terminals I think I would just install pig tails w/ 2 & 3 pin connectors on them instead. It would have made the board smaller & easier to lay out and then installing would have been easier as well.
The "Idiot Switch"
In a thread started by my father (referenced below under The Infamous Adapters) countrybumpkin stated he added a master cut off switch to his set-up to avoid any inadvertent operation of the solenoid when nothing is connected to the 3rd function (thus dead heading the system). We liked the idea so I added one to our set-up also.
Lowes - $9.00 for weatherproof toggle switch (could have gotten cheaper from digi-key but it was a "need it right now item")
Servalite Model #: 884415 - Lowes Item #: 75678
The Solenoid
I did a fair bit of Google Searching and found this one from Fremont Industrial Supply (fremontindustrialsupply.com) for $118.43 shipped
D03 hydraulic solenoid valve 4 way 3 position, P open to Tank with ports A & B blocked 12 VOLT DC
SKU: HD-3C6-G02-LW-F-DC12*
The Subplate
Here's where things got interesting. Even before we knew exactly where we were going to mount it, we knew space & hose routing was going to be an issue. For that reason I wanted a subplate that had the ports on 2 sides instead of 1 port per side.
As you can imagine these were not quite as easy to come by, and once I did find it due to the amount of extra material & machining required to get the ports on 2 sides - it wasn't cheap.
I found what I wanted at magnaloy.com
D03 Side Ported Subplate. PN: SP-A03P6-1/Z $71.24 w/ Shipping
http://stage.magnaloy.com.mytempweb.com/catalog/manifold-1/Mnfld.37.pdf
Note - I went with 3/8" NPT ports (P6) rather than 1/2" (P8) because P6 was an in stock size and P8 was special order with a 2 week lead time. This comes into play later with hose & fitting selection
Tractor Supply - $3.67 for the Tee Nuts, bolts, washers for mounting the Subplate
The Infamous Adapters
Boy was this ever the biggest part of the learning curve ever - mostly due to my own stubbornness.
On the CK35 (and others in the series I presume) there is a hard line from the Power Beyond port on the loader valve to the rear 3pt lift. This line has Banjo style fittings on both ends. I didn't want to have the tractor down for a day (or longer) to actually pull one of the bolts and take it around to see what it was (and always trying to save a buck I wanted to order online). You can follow the hijinks if this adventure on Dad's thread here if you're really bored.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/356319-third-function.html
Cliff Notes version - this thread is a Metric M18 x 1.5 thread which will require an adapter fitting to your favorite flavor of threads. I went with NPT almost exclusively and here I went with 1/2"
For the 1/2" version the part numbers are:
Parker - M18-1/2F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-08
If you'd rather use 3/8" then they are:
Parker - M18-3/8F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-06
I ended up finding mine at local place (my new favorite hydraulic shop BTW) for $11 something each plus tax. Grand total for 2 was $23.28 (cheaper than Discount Hydraulic before shipping)
Hoses
Here is the scariest part of the project where a small error can cost you several dollars.
I bought all the hoses locally (not from my new favorite hydraulic shop). I expected local to be higher than mail order & in hind sight probably should have shopped around a bit more (might have found my favorite shop a lot sooner). I am trying to avoid the feeling I got "taken" but I think I got taken.
$362.59 total (w/ tax) for the following (all Parker Branded and all w/ hose protection installed)
(1) 24" long 1/2" hose w/ 1/2" NPT Male 90 deg elbow swivel on one end and 3/8" NPT Male swivel on the other ($53)
- 1/2" 90 to metric adapter on loader valve & 3/8" to P port on subplate
(1) 24" long 1/2" hose w/ 1/2" NPT Male on one end and 3/8" NPT Male swivel on the other ($35.63)
- 3/8" from T port on subplate & 1/2" to Metric adapter at 3pt connection
(1 ea) 76" & 74" long 3/8" hose with 3/8" NPT Male 90 deg swivel on one end and 3/8" JIC Female 45 deg elbow on the other (76" - $ 72.85 and 74" - $71.98)
and
(2) 3/8" JIC Male to 3/8" NPT Male adapters ($1.92 each)
- 3/8" NPT Male 90 deg swivel to A & B ports on subplate & 3/8" JIC Female 45 deg elbow w/ adapter to loader tower
(2) 88" long 3/8" hose with 3/8" NPT Male on both ends ($53.52 each)
- these go from the coupling at the loader tower to the bulkhead on the loader cross bar.
Misc Hardware and fittings
All from discounthydraulichose.com ($82.45 w/ shipping and after deducting for wrong BSP fittings that were sent back)
(1) 3AGF3-AG3F3 | Set of 3/8" Couplers with 3/8" NPTF Threads - $13.58
- Standard Ag couplers for bulkhead on loader
(4) 5409-06 | 3/8" NPTF Hex Socket Plug - $0.88
- Just bought these to help keep crud out of the subplate during fabrication, not *needed*
(2) 5502-06-06 | 3/8" Male NPTF x 3/8" Female NPTF 90ｰ - $5.30
- 90 deg fittings for bulkhead mount
(2) 600-06-06S | Set of 3/8" Hydraulic Quick Disconnects (Steel) - $37.20
- These match the Kioti factory disconnects at the loader tower. Used these for interoperability. Could substitute something cheaper.
(3) BE-T3075 | Twin Support Clamp, OD = 0.750" - $11.19
- Hose clamps for loader arm
The Fabrication & Assembly process
The factory grip knob is molded on. Take a razor knife and split it as deep as you can along the seam front & back, then peel it open.
Next grind the sides of the flat to be the same width as the rest of the shaft and the JD grip will drop right over it. The top hole of the grip lines up with the existing hole and all you need to do is drill a new second hole. It's still a slight bit "wobbly" and I may go back and add a piece of rubber tubing as a bushing but it's really not noticable when you're working.
Once I was done here I ran the wires down the stick and (rather than mess with the inner workings of the base) I routed the wires under the 3pt & rear remote control cover by milling a small notch in it with the dremell tool (I did remove it for this). I was planning on wrapping the wiring and the stick in one big piece of split loom but I didn't have any w/ large enough diameter.
From here I pulled power for the circuit board from the Customer Use connector talked about in this thread.
www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/162860-customer-use-fuse-ck27-where.html
I cut off the connector and spliced in to the wires. The 12V + sided runs over to the "idiot switch" and back then along with the ground wire over to the controller box. Everything is enclosed in 1/4" wire loom.
Now we need a place to mount the solenoid & subplate.
I already knew I wanted someplace protected and had ruled out mounting under the tractor near the loader valve already, but once the solenoid & subplate arrived I knew I was going to need a lot of space. SO... off came the seat. I still think that the bracket holding the hydraulic filter would have been a good location but honestly we just don't have the "heavy duty" tools one would need to drill into steel that thick (not to mention how much more disassembly would be needed to gain good access to that area) - so we opted to use the space on top of the transmission housing.
We ended up using the existing threaded holes already in the housing and fabricated a metal mounting plate for the subplate & solenoid to set on. The initial plan was for the subplate to sit directly on this plate but (as you will see) it ended up needing to be spaced up a bit. This means our initial mounting plate is too thin & allows too much flexing so we are in the process of fabricating a thicker one.
I didn't think to get this shot until after a lot of work had started so if you look you can see the Metric to NPT adapter & hose already in for the 3pt side. More on this guy later, but since we're already talking about the adapters, lets jump over to the loader valve and install the one there next.
I went with the adapter and a 1/2" NPT 90 Deg swivel fitting on this end of the hose. In case you can't tell from the picture, it's tight in there. Very very tight in there. I ended up installing the adapter into the loader valve and then I pulled the three bolts holding it to the mount loose so I could wiggle the valve out ever so slightly to allow the swivel fitting to squeeze in and line up. Once everything is tightened up there is just enough clearance to keep anything from rubbing but a little re-design in this area could be a good thing.
Ok - time to play let's connect the hoses. Here's where the learning curve gets steep.
This is a view from the rear of the tractor looking forward. Just so we all have our bearings, the left side of the subplate is the A (rear) and B (front) ports and the right side is the T (rear) and P (front) ports. If you can't tell (or aren't familiar with the model) the Diff lock linkage is disconnected from the pedal because it's in the way of the hose from the loader valve to the P port. For next time this hose should have probably been 6-12" longer to allow better routing. Since I had it made "special" with a 3/8" fitting on this end I'm not yet sure how I'm going to fix this one. I may just take the hit and have my new favorite shop fab a new one a little longer.
Next the line from the T port to the 3pt connection. If you opt to follow this, take my advice and at a minimum put a swivel on the 1/2" end. Also with a little more time & engineering this could be replaced by a hard line but without being able to fabricate on site or transport the tractor to a shop - I didn't want to even begin to attempt this via trial & error. So I ended up using the "clover leaf" method.
Next the A & B lines. The 90 deg swivels on this end made life a LOT easier. The hoses just make a quick up and over and right back out along the side of the tractor.
Here they are running over the loader valve and then they follow the existing lines up the loader tower.
They are zip tied in for now. I went with JIC on this end because the ultimate plan is to fabricate a new plate that will hold all 6 disconnects and the 45 JIC made the cleanest bend & mimicked what was already in place. Also I used the same disconnects here to match the kioti factory ones.
The hoses running up the loader arms are a tad long but it's easier to cut & re-crimp than it is to stretch so I allowed extra when I measured. Once we get the other hoses mounted in place I'll have these re-done.
So what about the other ends? The ends where the magic happens?
Well the lines just follow the existing hoses and are zip-tied in place for now. I had planned on mounting hose clamp blocks on the loader arm but after looking again I don't think I'm going to bother. I know zip-ties don't have a great lifespan in the sun so I'll probably replace them with universal hose clamps and call it a day.
As for the bulkhead...A couple 3/8" elbows, some washers, a set of standard 3/8" Ag couplers, and a couple pieces of scrap metal and ..viola Bulkhead.
I am in the middle of designing / installing a better bungee system using one of the (now) extra hose clamp blocks, an eye bolt, and the bungee strap but I'm waiting on new hoses for the grapple (EA found a production issue and is sending me a new set). Soon as they get here I'll add in a (hopefully) better hose management system and add some more pictures.
Well I know this was a pretty tedious write up. I wasn't intending for it to be step by step instructions but I wanted to share more than just a couple quick snaps. Hopefully this will help the next person that's on the fence and afraid to "do it yourself" and my learning curve will make things a little easier.
Thanks for reading thru all this and thanks for all the help, advice, and information shared along the way.
