CJ4 oil

[Shimon]

No, sounds like total BS.

The Kubota engineer that Happyman spoke with is actually right. CJ-4 oils are made for the low sulfur diesel fuels. If you use high sulfur diesel fuel, you can still use CJ-4 oils but you need to change the oil more often.

I have attached a scan of a document that Chevron put out when the Delo LE oils came out which answers many questions. I have since not been able to find it on their webpage. But I kept it specifically because of FAQ #9 which states that if you use high sulfur fuel (5000ppm) then you need to "revise your oil drain intervals"...change oil more often. They are not specific about 500ppm but it's implied (or I read it that way) that oil change intervals need to be more frequent.

I think it would be difficult to get Chevron to equivocally state that you need more frequent oil change intervals with their CJ-4 oils. But the bottom line, from this document, is that CJ-4 oils have a harder time dealing with high sulfur fuels.

So, in my opinion as a diesel mech, I would say go ahead and use the CJ-4 oils with higher sulfur fuels but just change your oil more frequently...how much? I don't know. Do it twice as often. Or stockpile CI oil (as I have done) just in case. Pretty soon all diesel fuel will be moving to low sulfur if it isn't already so we are just dealing with a transitional phase. Hope this helps. And remember that my "advice" is free so it's worth exactly that.

 

[LBrown59]

Pretty soon all diesel fuel will be moving to low sulfur if it isn't already so we are just dealing with a transitional phase.

I figure the refineries stopped refining high sulfur shortly after they started producing ULSD a couple of years ago.
Any high sulfur stock pile they had on hand at that time has more than likely been depleted by now.

L . B .

 

[Shimon]

I figure the refineries stopped refining high sulfur shortly after they started producing ULSD a couple of years ago.
Any high sulfur stock pile they had on hand at that time has more than likely been depleted by now.

Nonroad, marine and train diesel can be (and mostly is) 500ppm and will remain so until about 2012 to 2014 (depending on application). All on-road diesel should be ULSD by now but isn't required until late 2010. A lot of small refineries will continue with 500ppm but the EPA wants ALL diesel for ALL applications to be ULSD by the end of 2014.

It gets complicated because the EPA sets guidelines and then they realize they are unrealistic or they can't be reached so things get bumped or they "ignore" certain sectors.

I work in the recreational marine field which is currently under Tier 2 standards. 2009 is the transition to Tier 3 for marine but there are still problems adapting the Tier 3 technology used in on-road trucks (DPF, catalytic converters) to marine use (hot components in small recreational sized engine rooms make for hot fires). It's kind of a mess but eventually things will work themselves out as long as the EPA continues to work closely with the industries as opposed to just regulating them.

There is a lot of misleading information out there regarding the subject of what type of diesel fuel you are getting. That's because most people don't know and then pretend to know. I'm by no means an expert and I'm just letting you know what I know from what I read and from talking to "experts". It's very difficult to keep abreast of the current information...especially if you try to sift through the EPA website which is just a bunch of CFRs and doublespeak...I've read a lot of the regs and many of them are ambiguous at best.

 

[Shimon]

By the way, I see a lot of posts where people are calling their fuel supplier to find out what kind of diesel you are getting.

I don't want to make a blanket statement about the people that work at these fuel distributors...but one day I called all the local fuel companies in the area a couple of times throughout the day to ask questions about their fuel and in every case I got different answers if I talked to different people. They don't know. Or if they do know, they are not letting all their people know the right answer so the proper information is disseminated to their customers.

This, of course, is a problem in all walks of life. Some people just don't know how to say "I don't know" or "I'll call you back once I find out."

 

[PSDStu]

Nonroad, marine and train diesel can be (and mostly is) 500ppm and will remain so until about 2012 to 2014 (depending on application). All on-road diesel should be ULSD by now but isn't required until late 2010. A lot of small refineries will continue with 500ppm but the EPA wants ALL diesel for ALL applications to be ULSD by the end of 2014.

It gets complicated because the EPA sets guidelines and then they realize they are unrealistic or they can't be reached so things get bumped or they "ignore" certain sectors.

I work in the recreational marine field which is currently under Tier 2 standards. 2009 is the transition to Tier 3 for marine but there are still problems adapting the Tier 3 technology used in on-road trucks (DPF, catalytic converters) to marine use (hot components in small recreational sized engine rooms make for hot fires). It's kind of a mess but eventually things will work themselves out as long as the EPA continues to work closely with the industries as opposed to just regulating them.

There is a lot of misleading information out there regarding the subject of what type of diesel fuel you are getting. That's because most people don't know and then pretend to know. I'm by no means an expert and I'm just letting you know what I know from what I read and from talking to "experts". It's very difficult to keep abreast of the current information...especially if you try to sift through the EPA website which is just a bunch of CFRs and doublespeak...I've read a lot of the regs and many of them are ambiguous at best.

It was my understanding that as of June 2007 that all off-road diesel (except marine and train) was to be 500ppm max? Are you saying that this is not the case?

I know that rural store where I purchase my off-road fuel that the pump has had the black sticker on it stating that the fuel "may" contain more then 500ppm sulfur....... but this has been on their for at least a year and a half and I wonder I doubt they know what the sulfur level is of the fuel they are selling.

Stu

 

[Happyman]

No, sounds like total BS.
larry

Ok, larry

 

[ihookem]

It is all low sulfer cause if it wasn't the new pickups would be having problems by now. The diesel suppliers won't take a chance in a class action with 100,000 bad pdf 's. (I think I'm right, but I just don't know, I'll call you back when I get the answer!)

 

[LBrown59]

By the way, I see a lot of posts where people are calling their fuel supplier to find out what kind of diesel you are getting.

I don't want to make a blanket statement about the people that work at these fuel distributors...but one day I called all the local fuel companies in the area a couple of times throughout the day to ask questions about their fuel and in every case I got different answers if I talked to different people. They don't know. Or if they do know, they are not letting all their people know the right answer so the proper information is disseminated to their customers.

I can understand this.
The way it works here is there are 3 fuel distributors .
We also have an Ashland / Marathon bulk plant.
The bulk plant only has 1 fuel for off road use.
This being the case it doesn't matter what you use the fuel for ; running your tractor or heating your house it's still the same stuff.
All 3 distributors fill their delivery trucks from the same tank at the bulk plant.
This determines what you are getting, not what you're using it for and not the distributor.
L . B .
It may be different in other parts of the country but that's how it works here.

 

[Shimon]

It is all low sulfer cause if it wasn't the new pickups would be having problems by now. The diesel suppliers won't take a chance in a class action with 100,000 bad pdf 's. (I think I'm right, but I just don't know, I'll call you back when I get the answer!)

On-road diesel is ULSD which is what we put in our on-road vehicles. We are talking about off-road which is now LSD but will eventually be ULSD.

If you have a new truck that requires you use ULSD then you should be using on-road diesel to be sure that you get ULSD whether it's for off or on road use.

 

[Shimon]

This determines what you are getting, not what you're using it for and not the distributor.

You are correct. But when I called them some said it was 5000ppm, some said 500ppm and some said 15ppm. I even asked bogus questions like: "is your off-road diesel 100pm or 50ppm" and they would reply it's 50ppm. Which, of course, shows that person had no clue.