Gear drive vs hydro

[Soundguy]

It is for me. I enjoy my time with my family much more than I enjoy seat time in my tractor.

I love seat time like the next guy.. but more free time was what prompted me to trade in a nice 33hp 4wd with 12x4 tranny for a plain 95hp 2wd 8spd. cut mowing time from 6hrs to about 2 hrs.. the 12000$ that 'deal' cost me was well worth the time I gained from not spending an extra 4 hrs per mowing cycle away from other things i needed to do. Here in florida.. mowing cycles can be as often as every 5 days if we are getting proper rain and temps are'nt totally blistering..

soundguy

 

[Egon]

For some reason I like to double clutch when downshifting the syncromesh transmission on my car! Must be flashbacks to driving tractors!

Wonder what the Phase of the Moon is?

 

[Reg]

Interesting comparison. My 27.5 pto hp HST tractor is about 5/8th the hp of my TLB 12 speed gear tractor. The TLB is about 9000 pounds where the hst is about 4500. The TLB has a 20 cuft bucket on the front and a 10 cuft bucket on the hoe. The hst has an 8.8 cuft bucket.

Can you guess which one is able to move more dirt in less time? Need a hint? It's ain't the TLB.

Part of that is the 2wd vs 4wd. But a majority is the functionality of the hst being able to go from forward to backward while dumping the bucket and repositioning it for the next go round. It's harder to shift gears, steer clutch and position the bucket all at the same time. Yet, taking out the need for the hand to be on the gear shift and FEL stick makes it possible. (HST). It is also the ability to ease into the pile and exactly match lifting, roll back with forward pressure. It's also having full hydraulic pressure & flow as I ease into said pile. My foot throttle on the gear tractor can give me more flow, but a too fast of ground speed. Some have said they can feather the clutch. Yeah, do that 500 time a day and see how long it lasts...

But some like gears, some like powershift (glideshift) and some like hst. That's why they make multiple types, there is no one perfect transmission for all people for all uses.

Ya lost me.
I can do the forwards/backwards change (left hand & left foot) while curling/dumping & raising/lowering (right hand joystick) without crossing my hands - and having a left foot available for the clutch and right for the foot throttle. Both hands are off the wheel only at a time when I have no need to change steering direction, or even exert much force on the wheel.
ONLY WHILE changing direction - - that STATIONARY ! moment or two.

 

[N80]

Yet another KILLJOY injecting reality into this thread.

Um, Patrick, did you notice that no one is really arguing that point? Its kind of funny that several of you have gone on this 'experience/reality' tangent to the point that you argue with yourselves when no one is arguing the point. No one has said here that HST has no strengths. Which makes me think that 'thou protests too much.'

Sorry if this small dose of reality intrudes on anyone's pre or ill conceived hypothetical notions.

Funny how bitter reality is, isn't it, as you go on and on about a point no one is arguing all the while ignoring the simple and irrefutable numbers presented to you regarding $/hp.

I am not on a religious crusade and have no ego at stake

Oh really? So where did this come from:

Yeah, that's the way I like it uh huh, uh huh!

Pat

 

[DK35vince]

Ya lost me.
I can do the forwards/backwards change (left hand & left foot) while curling/dumping & raising/lowering (right hand joystick) without crossing my hands - and having a left foot available for the clutch and right for the foot throttle.

He lost me too.
I have NO problem foward/reversing while curling/dumping.
Or easing into a pile while matching lifting, rolling and foward pressure.
And with shuttle shift its quick and easy.

 

[N80]

It is for me. I enjoy my time with my family much more than I enjoy seat time in my tractor.

Give me a break. What loader intensive jobs do you have on a daily basis with a tiny tractor that the pounds loaded/minute advantage of HST has a measurable impact on your family life? And while you may fire back some justification for that, and it might even be real and rational, that certainly won't be the case for 99.999% of us who also own tiny little tractors and spend more time arguing about their transmissions than using them. Right?

 

[Reg]

Give me a break. What loader intensive jobs do you have on a daily basis with a tiny tractor that the pounds loaded/minute advantage of HST has a measurable impact on your family life? And while you may fire back some justification for that, and it might even be real and rational, that certainly won't be the case for 99.999% of us who also own tiny little tractors and spend more time arguing about their transmissions than using them. Right?

OMG !
Now THAT cuts REALLY close to the bone.
I find myself in VIOLENT agreement that I am spending more time arguing about my tractor (and those of others) than actually USING IT !
This is truly TRAGIC !

Lets all go out and play in the dirt - enjoy our "differently able'd" toys, separately and far apart but united in our common interest(s).
I would like to spend more family time too, instead of typing and getting cranked up about this.

Thanks for the wake up
(-:

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ya lost me.
I can do the forwards/backwards change (left hand & left foot) while curling/dumping & raising/lowering (right hand joystick) without crossing my hands - and having a left foot available for the clutch and right for the foot throttle. Both hands are off the wheel only at a time when I have no need to change steering direction, or even exert much force on the wheel.
ONLY WHILE changing direction - - that STATIONARY ! moment or two.

You should read it again and iterate if necessary. The key point is that you can push verry hard @0+ MPH while keeping the engine on song. And youre not slipping anything - just varying the displacement of a pump. Its sad that you and DK35vince are lost on this. Also, a key advantageous feature is that the speed and action of the tractor follows the pedal as if it is controlling a lo inertia reversible engine that has tremendous torque and engine braking and works from 0rpm up. You cant do that with a clutch. You could do it by setting the brakes and using the engine&clutch to override them. A computer may be able to do this as well on a gear as a klutz could do on an HST.... Replace clutch and brakes hourly.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

Here's more killjoy for you... the common 'task' being used here to describe how much 'better' HST's are than gear tractors always gets tossed around as 'loader work'.. IE.. the 39hp hst moving more dirt than the 50hp gear.

Kick that over to a different task just to be fair.

Will your 39hp hst tote a 10' mower? Your 50hp might.. an 8' anyway...

I'll bet that 50hp geard mows more grass than that 39hp hst... Kinda kicks over to that argument N80 was making... money for the hydro kicks you into a smaller tractor.. smaller tractor uses smaller implements.. smaller implements .. in the mowing world, mean less foot of cut... thus.. more time needed due to a smaller mower. ( wow.. this discussion could have lots of permutations.. IE.. throw in used vs new on the gear vs hst.. and the results skew considerably.. IE.. one of my 70 hp 'classic' tractors and a 10' mower probably cost much.. perahps even 'multiples' less than a 39hp hst with a mower correctly sized for it.. looking at a foot cut, per dollar spent... it gets quite interesting.. but I digress.. that's a completely moot tangent to this discussion.. )

Now... all things are not equal... if money wasn't a concern.. and you could get the larger tractor with the hst.. and needed it.. IE.. lots of obstacles or backing up.. then you are throwing a new variable that needs attention into the mix.. and then you get to decide what options are valuable vs cost.. etc.

it's not a straight clear across the board benefit.. but one of cost vs benefit.. whether tangible or percieved.

soundguy

Good post.
larry

 

[Reg]

You should read it again and iterate if necessary. The key point is that you can push verry hard @0+ MPH while keeping the engine on song. And youre not slipping anything - just varying the displacement of a pump. Its sad that you and DK35vince are lost on this. Also, a key advantageous feature is that the speed and action of the tractor follows the pedal as if it is controlling a lo inertia reversible engine that has tremendous torque and engine braking and works from 0rpm up. You cant do that with a clutch. You could do it by setting the brakes and using the engine&clutch to override them. A computer may be able to do this as well on a gear as a klutz could do on an HST.... Replace clutch and brakes hourly.
larry

OK, maybe I just drive into a pile differently.
I don't see a need to push at all hard at zero speed, I tend to lift/curl as I go into the pile with the clutch fully engaged.
No need to slip anything, right gear, right speed, etc.
The Klutz on a hydro might be going in with the bucket on the ground and trying to push the pile instead of loading the bucket - maybe, it is a common beginner mistake.
I go in as high as I feel reasonable and only scrape the ground for material when that is all that is left.
No need to push hard on that at zero speed either, just gathering the last inch or two off the ground.
It is the dirty stuff, I take the clean stuff first and keep it clean by not scraping the ground under the full height of the pile - which just incidentally obviates any need to push hard at zero speed.