Gear drive vs hydro

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I have a question and I admit the question is based on ignorance or the hydraulic tractor set-up as opposed to what I know of the chainsaw set up. A regular chain saw is engine driven to a sprocket (gear) which then turns the chain, which transfers into work output. What are some of the most powerful chainsaws on earth? Certainly one that has a 7 hp mechanically driven chain is quite the power outputter. However, a hydraulically driven chain saw will run rings around any engined chainsaw you can carry. Why is this not true for tractors? Understand I am not arguing the point as to what tractors are more powerful HST or geared. I just do not know why an HST tractor,wouldn''t be infinitely more powerful than a geared tractor since pressurized fluid is one of the most powerful forces on earth. Where exactly does the loss occur that makes it arguable for a geared tractor to outwork an HST?

 

[N80]

However, a hydraulically driven chain saw will run rings around any engined chainsaw you can carry.

I only know of two types of hydraulic chainsaws 1) hydro saw slashers (buckers) and the ones you can plug into an existing engine/pump combo. And what they have in common and the answer to your question is that they are both plugged into pumps that are driven by engines that far exceed the max hp of any chainsaw with its own motor.

Although, I suspect that in the logging contests that the saws in the unlimited chainsaw class would probably cut faster and better than many, if not all, handheld hydraulics saws. This comes at the price of size and a definite element of danger.

 

[MossRoad]

I have a question and I admit the question is based on ignorance or the hydraulic tractor set-up as opposed to what I know of the chainsaw set up. A regular chain saw is engine driven to a sprocket (gear) which then turns the chain, which transfers into work output. What are some of the most powerful chainsaws on earth? Certainly one that has a 7 hp mechanically driven chain is quite the power outputter. However, a hydraulically driven chain saw will run rings around any engined chainsaw you can carry. Why is this not true for tractors? Understand I am not arguing the point as to what tractors are more powerful HST or geared. I just do not know why an HST tractor,wouldn''t be infinitely more powerful than a geared tractor since pressurized fluid is one of the most powerful forces on earth. Where exactly does the loss occur that makes it arguable for a geared tractor to outwork an HST?

Not the same thing at all. For one thing a hydraulic chainsaw usually is run from a pump that is powered by a truck engine, not a little two stroke hand held engine.

Pressurize fluid is in itself, not powerful. The force that is pushing it is.

 

[Dargo]

You guys still at it?!

Okay, you need to change the title of this thread to "Up your post count" thread!

And, please, feel free to use my avatar now.

 

[Soundguy]

I have a question and I admit the question is based on ignorance or the hydraulic tractor set-up as opposed to what I know of the chainsaw set up. A regular chain saw is engine driven to a sprocket (gear) which then turns the chain, which transfers into work output. What are some of the most powerful chainsaws on earth? Certainly one that has a 7 hp mechanically driven chain is quite the power outputter. However, a hydraulically driven chain saw will run rings around any engined chainsaw you can carry. Why is this not true for tractors? Understand I am not arguing the point as to what tractors are more powerful HST or geared. I just do not know why an HST tractor,wouldn''t be infinitely more powerful than a geared tractor since pressurized fluid is one of the most powerful forces on earth. Where exactly does the loss occur that makes it arguable for a geared tractor to outwork an HST?

Aside from the fact that this has already been answered.. IE.. the engine driving the hyd saw is liely larger than the one on the direct powered say... you mention where are the losses.. well.. one of them is a designed automatic loss. IE.. a relief valve.. you can get into situations wher ethe engine is turning the pump.. fluid is flowing.. yet the wheels ca't spin due to the valve opeing.. it's a safety feature.

also.. you are still hung up on a direct comparision... so far N80's been blatantly obvious that when you compair equal dollars.. and otherwise equall tractors.. that the hst tractor will almost always be smaller.. due to that cost premium on the hst.. thus you are comparing a smaler hst to a larger gear.. and then it should be apparrent why a gear unit.. otherwise ballasted correctly as well as the hst.. why one of them might put more power to the ground.. because one of them has a bigger engine to begin with... remember.. nothing is free.. if the gear trans is say.. 1000$.. and the hst is 2500$.. then to keep money == you got to drop back on the tractor.. thus mor ehp to start off with.. etc.

no rocket science needed here.. just very simple math...

soundguy

 

[WilliamBos]

But at least you could then say the Red Green man's prayer....

I'm a man....
But I can change...
If I have to...
I guess.

Amen to that one.

 

[N80]

You guys still at it?!

No, we are still in it. Would you like to borrow my horse beatin' stick?

 

[jk96]

While I've been out of the debate for a whole 24 hours now, I think were forgetting the original question

Question

Would a gear drive hold up better for heavy tillage type work or is hydrostat just as good?

Since we've already decided the horsepower loss between two identicle tractors is insignificant, has anyone shown any data or examples of a hydro failing early due to tillage type work? I pull a two row disk on occasion with my DX45 (God forbid using R4 tires ) Just set the cruise and crank up the radio. Should I expect premature failure of the trans?

One other comment by the original OP seems to be forgotten as well

I realize you lose on resale with the gear

I'm assuming the OP is correct in that more hydro are sold in the SCUT/CUT class tractors and more people are looking for a hydro when buying used over a gear. So if this is true, kind of throws the whole more tractor for the money theory out the window doesn't it?

Sorry - just trying to fuel the fire

 

[WilliamBos]

No, we are still in it. Would you like to borrow my horse beatin' stick?

Sure, let me borrow it for a bit.

While I've been out of the debate for a whole 24 hours now, I think were forgetting the original question

Question


Since we've already decided the horsepower loss between two identicle tractors is insignificant, has anyone shown any data or examples of a hydro failing early due to tillage type work? I pull a two row disk on occasion with my DX45 (God forbid using R4 tires ) Just set the cruise and crank up the radio. Should I expect premature failure of the trans?

One other comment by the original OP seems to be forgotten as well



I'm assuming the OP is correct in that more hydro are sold in the SCUT/CUT class tractors and more people are looking for a hydro when buying used over a gear. So if this is true, kind of throws the whole more tractor for the money theory out the window doesn't it?

Sorry - just trying to fuel the fire

Guess we will find out. The only way I would trade our hydro would be for the DynaQPS.

 

[Reg]

While I've been out of the debate for a whole 24 hours now, I think were forgetting the original question

Question


Since we've already decided the horsepower loss between two identicle tractors is insignificant, has anyone shown any data or examples of a hydro failing early due to tillage type work? I pull a two row disk on occasion with my DX45 (God forbid using R4 tires ) Just set the cruise and crank up the radio. Should I expect premature failure of the trans?

One other comment by the original OP seems to be forgotten as well



I'm assuming the OP is correct in that more hydro are sold in the SCUT/CUT class tractors and more people are looking for a hydro when buying used over a gear. So if this is true, kind of throws the whole more tractor for the money theory out the window doesn't it?

Sorry - just trying to fuel the fire

AGAIN, for equal dollar$ the gear tractor has more power and often more weight, providing more power to the ground.

Re-sale value ?
Huhh, hadn't thought much about it...
Lets see; Is there a blue book for 30+ year old tractors ?
If so look it up, see if there is a difference in used value.
My guess is that a '78 tractor with gears is probably less suspect than a '78 hydro.
Yes, I expect my gear tractor will outlast me, so resale value is even MORE hypothetical.