Gear drive vs hydro

[ArkLaTexSam]

Gear: for tractoring mostly in the fields, heavy ground engagments, and road
travel.

Hydro: for tractoring in tight quarters, loader work, light/medium ground
engagments.


Gear or Hydro: doesn't matter which you choose if you have preference,
need because of physical disability, or you're already
accustomed to one. Some people still prefer a standard shift
auto instead of automatic transmission.

As for now. I'm sticking with my ehydro.

Happy tractoring to all,

ArkLaTexSam

 

[Chuck K.]

Good Mornin Chuck,
Sure why not Chuck, if we dont like what we hear, I will just PM N80 and he will take care of it for me !!!

Well good moring, actually good evening to you Scott I am working graveyard shift.
I have owned the shuttle gear shift on the L3400. I do not believe it is sychonized as I would have to wait a bit between shifting, in tight spots on my small property it was a bit of a nusiance. There is no doubt it was a really strong drivetrain.
Now over the last year I have put over 200hrs on the L5240 with HST+, I am very pleased with it. I do not do much ground engagement work mostly FEL, BB, pallet forks and BH work.

4 things come to mind as to why I prefer the HST+. (Safety Police fire at will I have my kevlar on )

1. As others have mentioned when hooking up BH etc. with tractor running I can carefully push the HST pedal while standing beside the tractor to move tractor a inch or 2.

2. While switching FEL attachments I stand up to have a better view while in double low and attach the implement much easier. (Yes the seat safety switch has been disabled to do this. I plan on installing a toggle switch so I can enable the switch during normal operation.)

3.Recently while trenching a 3' deep ~200' long run for electircal power to my shop when I was ready to advance forward I simply raised the FEL, (from the BH seat) raise the stabilizers then used my patented L5240 inching device (4' long 2" PVC) in which I would carefully push the HST pedal, move forward lower the FEL and stablizers and resume digging.

4.It really makes the gear drive folks really jelous
Just kidding guys.. to each his own..
IF I routinely did heavy ground engagement type work in large areas I personally would feel better with gear drive..

Have a good one..
Chuck.

 

[Modn]

3.Recently while trenching a 3' deep ~200' long run for electircal power to my shop when I was ready to advance forward I simply raised the FEL, (from the BH seat) raise the stabilizers then used my patented L5240 inching device (4' long 2" PVC) in which I would carefully push the HST pedal, move forward lower the FEL and stablizers and resume digging.

I've been wondering, since I will eventually get a backhoe for mine.....can you leave it in neutral or would it hurt it when you moved it forward with the backhoe.

 

[MossRoad]

Having owned and operated both for years, i love my kubota hydros, however, my international gear tractors were indestructible!

Have you destructed your Kubotas?

 

[Chuck K.]

I've been wondering, since I will eventually get a backhoe for mine.....can you leave it in neutral or would it hurt it when you moved it forward with the backhoe.

I did not use the backhoe to push the tractor forward. I used the pvc pipe instead to push the HST pedal instead, for me it worked better than pushing with the hoe.
So I am not real sure of the answere here. IF I where going to use the BH to push it foreward I would put the HST in neutral beings the HST typically does not roll very easily.

 

[N80]

All right you frugal gear heads....

You give the argument that you bought your new gear tractor because you wanted the most hp for your buck....

(with the exception of Soundguy, who seems to be frugal AND smart about his purchases)

I was frugal and smart and lucky. I got exactly what I wanted, exactly what I needed, for the money I had available and I'm totally happy with it, after three years of hard use and its been paid off for 2 years. Now, you can decide which of those is frugal, smart or lucky.

If you really, really worried so much about your precious cash, you would have bought a used machine in good shape VS a new machine. After all, gears last forever, right? Now justify your way out of that one you money wasters.

That's easy. Used machines in good shape, both gear and HST maintain their value, at least around here...three years ago. Decent used machines (4wd, around 45 hp, with loader) with fairly low hours had prices around 3/4 of the price of new. For me this would require me to borrow money. Nothing that I could afford to pay cash for was decent or low hours or had the features listed above. Factor in 0% financing + 1/4 more on the price and in most cases it was a wash, or actually cheaper over time to go new factoring in the interest I'd pay on financing a used tractor (read, high rates!). This is THE reason, in my opinion, for the 0% financing deals. Its to keep people from buying good condition used machines. and if you do the math, it works.

And don't give me any warranty, schmorranty excuses either.

And you get the warranty.

I want real justification as to why you spent so much money.

You just got it.

P.S.: Moss Road, my cash is in fact precious. I know a few people for whom that is not the case, but not many. If yours is not, how 'bout sending a wad of it my way. Maybe I'll get me a fancy automatic tractor.

 

[N80]

1. Dealers and manufacturers charge more for HST than for the exact same gear tractor even though it may not cost anymore to make them but they are able to charge more because many people are willing to pay more for them for some reason.

I think there could easily come a day when the prices are the same. When they can no longer sell gear drive CUTs, the price may equalize or even invert. Try buying a non-sports car of econo-box without an automatice transmission. Manuals are hard to find, even in trucks. And there isn't much of a price difference.

It might not be long before you can't buy a new geared CUT or pay more for it than HST.

The resale value on an HST is higher for the same reason. This reason will be forever debatable.

I'm not sure that this has been established. Do HST tractors retain a higher percentage of their new purchase price? I'm just asking, I don't know. If not, you get the savings on the gear machine when you buy and the HST when you sell....if you don't sell, the point's moot.

3. No one who bought either a gear drive or a hydro will admit that they might have made a bad choice and that the other one may have been better for them.

Very true. It is a common phenomenon, and the more we research our purchase the more we want to defend it. I'm the same way. But I'll tell you a few things about my purchase and research. First, I thought I needed 45 hp without really knowing why. As it turned out, I needed every bit of it. So I got lucky. Second, when I bought my tractor, I did so grudgingly. It was something that I thought I needed for certain things. It was a financial burden to get it and kind of reminded me of buying a washing machine. But once again I got lucky, I feel in love with the machine and it has been so much fun AND has added tremendous value (worth) to my property. So sure I'm proud of it, but my research was proved correct (100%) mostly by luck.

I can't think of another thing I learned from the almost 500 posts on this thread.

That's a shame. I've learned tons in this thread. Maybe I've just got more to learn than most.

 

[N80]

Who sed nu ?

Excellent point. Didn't even think of it. But if geared machines lose value more than HSTs, for any given budget, buying a used geared machine will get you even MORE horsepower over HST than when buying new!

 

[Soundguy]

soundguy ********

...and never once mentioned modus ponens!!!

Pat

It is valid logic though. And the way I set it up.. the premise is true.. thus making the argument not only valid but also sound.

so i don't see a problem with the statement.???

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

nor can a gear tractor of the same hp as the smaller hst tractor you talk of. if all numbers are equal at the pto between the gear vs the hst, you are at no advantage with the gear over the hst.

It would be like discussing Powershifts vs CVT..... endless!!

I think you need to go back and reread your argument.. your comment is non sequitur.. you start out saying equal numbers.. but then state a smaller HST... can't be both.. either the tractors are equal numbers ( and the hst costs more ).. or the money is equal.. and the gear is bigger than the hst.. and thus has more hp / pto hp.. and thus runs the larger implement I talked about.

Nice try on the broken logic though!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I was frugal and smart and lucky. I got exactly what I wanted, exactly what I needed, for the money I had available and I'm totally happy with it, after three years of hard use and its been paid off for 2 years. Now, you can decide which of those is frugal, smart or lucky..

I think he's refering to the fact that I not only bought used and good mechanical condition.. but also found a unit that had a cosmetic defect that further lowered it's price.. plus that I bought a size/class of unit that was in less of a demand and thus took a substantial deprecation hit from the person trading it.. all factoring out that I got alot of 2wd gear driven hp that was 2ys old and for all intents and purposes. and out 33% cheaper than it was when it had been new.. IE.. 700 hrs of use and a bent fender shaved about 10 grand off the 7610s I bought.. worked for me though!

Should i mention that I actually had about 1-2 monts of warranty left on the machine when i bought it.. I figured I'd run the snot out of it for the 1st month to find any hidden defects i could!.. I lucked out and it has been a decent machine though..

soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

William, this thread is definitely an endless argument.

The arguments go like this.

Gearheads - I can put more power to the ground than a hydro.
Hydro - the power loss is so insignificant that either one will be evenly matched pulling the same implements.

Ahh the fantasy gearhead -hydro conversation. Absolutely priceless! In my opinion one of the best posts on this topic since it "took off."

More insight displayed than any dozen " 'tis-'taint" series of exchanges, ego displays, or ad hominems.

Great stuff!!!

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

1. As others have mentioned when hooking up BH etc. with tractor running I can carefully push the HST pedal while standing beside the tractor to move tractor a inch or 2.
Have a good one..
Chuck.

My tractor salesman demonstrated this technique to me when we were attaching an implement before I took delivery of the tractor. He suggested when hitching an implement to set the parking brake only secure enough to keep the tractor still but not so hard that with the HST in low range you couldn't jog it forward or back by reaching in and pressing the HST pedal. This is a super convenience.

I have broken several 2x6 boards as prybars trying to move an implement a tad to hitch it. Being able to move a half inch so easily from outside the cab has been a real help.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I have broken several 2x6 boards as prybars trying to move an implement a tad to hitch it. Being able to move a half inch so easily from outside the cab has been a real help.

Pat

Wow... I'd quit buying the chinese 2x6's... I've used a 2x4 #2 white board to scotch a 10' mower before... with a 2x6 I probably could have rolled my ford 5000 forward. In the end.. after trying to scotch a 2500# implement.. I simple learned where to backup to... on subsequent trips.

soundguy

 

[WilliamBos]

Run a larger implement. If we are talking a pto gen. and the load rating of the gen is needed, and the tractor pto hp matches the gen's input for load.. then the smaler hst tractor ' Can't ' do it.

same with other ideas.. IE.. implements right on the edge of go vs no go.. a larger tractor may run them safely.. but not the slightly smaller tractor..

soundguy

I was quoting what you said on the smaller hst tractor.

I stand by my point, equal PTO HP and there is NO advantage to a gear tractor. NONE what so ever over a HST when talking equal PTO HP vs PTO HP.

 

[tallyho8]

This is THE reason, in my opinion, for the 0% financing deals. Its to keep people from buying good condition used machines. and if you do the math, it works.

I have to disagree with you here. While 0% financing sounds great, there is nothing in life that is free. When I got my Kubota I could get either 0% financing or a nice rebate but not both. When you are negotiating selling price with the dealer, you can almost always negotiate a lower price if you are not getting the 0% loan. You do wind up paying for getting a 0% loan but it is in hidden costs like a higher price or no rebate.

But, you are right that the reason is to keep people from buying good condition used machines among other reasons, but this is because most people do not consider the hidden costs.

Auto dealers frequently use the same type selling tactics when offering you $2000 more trade-in on your old car than it is worth. Many people jump at the chance to get more for their old car than it is worth, not realizing that they could get $2000 off the price of the car if they negotiated with no trade in.

 

[dfkrug]

I did not use the backhoe to push the tractor forward. I used the pvc pipe instead to push the HST pedal instead, for me it worked better than pushing with the hoe.
So I am not real sure of the answere here. IF I where going to use the BH to push it foreward I would put the HST in neutral beings the HST typically does not roll very easily.

That is the way I do it, too. (Use a stick to operate HST pedal from hoe
seat.) With my previous gear tractors, I would use the hoe to move fwd
and rev, after lifting the FEL bkt. With the HST, you have the self-braking
action if you keep it in gear. I find that to be much safer when inching
fwd or back, esp on slopes. With the HST, you do not have to use the
FEL bkt as a anchor, either, but you still may want to.

 

[Reg]

That is the way I do it, too. (Use a stick to operate HST pedal from hoe
seat.) With my previous gear tractors, I would use the hoe to move fwd
and rev, after lifting the FEL bkt. With the HST, you have the self-braking
action if you keep it in gear. I find that to be much safer when inching
fwd or back, esp on slopes. With the HST, you do not have to use the
FEL bkt as a anchor, either, but you still may want to.

Well, I suppose if I was THAT much off when backing to hook up an implement I would put the bucket to dump and get it's edge about vertical, then put a bit of weight on it and leave the tractor in (REAL)neutral, brakes off.
A little feathered curl/dump action would probably move it whatever fractions of an inch I needed.

Oh dear me NO ! Mary.
No WAY would I do that on the polished hardwood floor in the air conditioned garage.
Only in the dirt.

 

[jake98]

Sumauguys may haven't had backhoe exp before getting the hst. If you're stuck and have both hoe and loader, you can uncurl and pull with the dipper... save the pvc...

 

[jake98]

[QUOTE=HST, you have the self-braking
action if you keep it in gear. I find that to be much safer

I think you're talking about creeping. Not any breaking action. It'll go slow all the way down to the neighbor's. In my next life I'm comming back here as 'HydroCreep'.

Jake