Gear drive vs hydro

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No, we are still in it. Would you like to borrow my horse beatin' stick?

just may be flogging the dead horse but to the next guy holding the stick, at least the beating part is new.

N80, At your photog site, the gal on the horse is a rather poignant image.

 

[jake98]

All great till you get to a point where you can stall the trns, and not stall the engine.. and not have tire slippage. IE.. plenty of weight / friction for all the traction needed.

On a tractor.. i want tires to slip.. or clutch to slip.. or engine to stall or the tractor to move... I'm unhappy with a revved up engine.. and stuck tires.. and a trans in bypass..... IE.. move or break.... My hand on the throttle is what -I- want to be the relief valve... .. that's just me.

The casual weekend warrior is probably happier with something that controls his destiny without so much hands on involvement..

soundguy

"his methods have become unsound..., 'unsound sir?'.., unsound...." the horror



Mine stalls well, ..Less often.., w/tires Slipping, ...but it still happens.

ps: Honda hydrostatic w/tracks aquired today, electric start..120v. ac... 1995 w/manual. after I wash it off I'm gonna kiss it. when it's freezing out, not when it's pluged in...
jm

 

[Soundguy]

Since we've already decided the horsepower loss between two identicle tractors is insignificant, has anyone shown any data or examples of a hydro failing early due to tillage type work? I pull a two row disk on occasion with my DX45 (God forbid using R4 tires ) Just set the cruise and crank up the radio. Should I expect premature failure of the trans?

One other comment by the original OP seems to be forgotten as well



I'm assuming the OP is correct in that more hydro are sold in the SCUT/CUT class tractors and more people are looking for a hydro when buying used over a gear. So if this is true, kind of throws the whole more tractor for the money theory out the window doesn't it?

Sorry - just trying to fuel the fire

when you compair identical tractor.. but one is gear and one is hydro.. you are compairing 2 different co$ting tractors...

As for resale.. it's a moot point.. some of us keep tractors.. not flip them and sell them like the 'constant new car' syndrome some people have. I've never seent he point in selling and buying new for a unit that you like and still works good. Now.. if you have a worker fleet that needs updating and new machines.. that's different.. par out the high hour ones.. or the wore ones.. or the ones beinning to cost you money.. however.. I don't think that is the issue with the average yuppie that flips a cut when the paint starts loosing it's shine...

soundguy

 

[arrow]

Not the same thing at all. For one thing a hydraulic chainsaw usually is run from a pump that is powered by a truck engine, not a little two stroke hand held engine.

Pressurize fluid is in itself, not powerful. The force that is pushing it is.

Not the same? you're kidding. Cheez, re read my post, The size of the engine has nothing to do with the power output of the hydro saw beyond a certain point. The saw will only take as much power as its mechanisms will allow. In other words a 5 hp hydro saw will always be a 5 hp hydro whether its powered by a pump attached to a Ford 460 truck motor or a 20hp Kohler. I am wondering why the hydro would be weaker in a similar situation tractor. Sound guy answered that for me. The example I gave was demonstrating the power of hydraulics as they apply to a CHAIN SAW and why EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL IN TRACTORS, why the nod does not go to the hyd. powered tractor power wise.

N80 Just for the info, Although using the chainsaw as an example only and not really discussing in depth of the accumen of the hyd. powered saw, You describe 2 basic types of hyd. chainsaws. There are many size deviations in the hand held saws all the way from 14" to over 42" blades. The advantage of course is in the power to weight ratio. It is a rather neat effect to hold a hyd. saw of 5 hp that is in the weight range of say that 14" Walmart special that will zing thru wood like it does.

As for a sooped up gas saw going against a hydro, coudn't tell ya for sure but it wood be interesting. I have heard talk about a hydro going thru an 18" round of oak in 3 seconds but I never witnessed this myself.

 

[jake98]

answer the easy questions first.

 

[jk96]

when you compair identical tractor.. but one is gear and one is hydro.. you are compairing 2 different co$ting tractors...

Your forgetting that the original question was not about equal costing tractors, it did not sound like the OP was even concerned about the price difference, only whether or not a gear or hydro will hold up better in the long run doing tillage work?

Would a gear drive hold up better for heavy tillage type work or is hydrostat just as good?

So will it or won't it. Will we be replacing a clutch before the hydro needs work or will the hydro shoot craps early? I would sincerely like to know.

 

[N80]

Since we've already decided the horsepower loss between two identicle tractors is insignificant, has anyone shown any data or examples of a hydro failing early due to tillage type work?

The answer to the question, as presented, is no. If the HST machine has the adequate/appropriate horsepower (where ever you wish to measure it) to use the implement in question, I doubt that it would have a tendency to fail any more prematurely than with any other task it is designed to and is adequate to handle.

I pull a two row disk on occasion with my DX45 (God forbid using R4 tires ) Just set the cruise and crank up the radio. Should I expect premature failure of the trans?

If you are not over taxing or abusing the machine then it should not fail prematurely.

I'd have to say that this seems self evident. I don't think any of the major manufactures are designing and building tractors that they expect to fail prematurely while doing typical tractor tasks.

I'm assuming the OP is correct in that more hydro are sold in the SCUT/CUT class tractors and more people are looking for a hydro when buying used over a gear. So if this is true, kind of throws the whole more tractor for the money theory out the window doesn't it?

Sorry - just trying to fuel the fire

No, your conclusion is not correct. Other's have commented, but if it costs $2000 less than an HST to begin with and you get $2000 less than an HST at resale then the resale value is the same.

 

[N80]

just may be flogging the dead horse but to the next guy holding the stick, at least the beating part is new.

N80, At your photog site, the gal on the horse is a rather poignant image.

Thank you, but which one?

This one:

or this one:

or this one:

 

[jake98]

george, you gonna get poignant up on wikapedea or do we all have 2 bash heads when we all get there @the same time..?

sounds like an odor

 

[N80]

So will it or won't it. Will we be replacing a clutch before the hydro needs work or will the hydro shoot craps early? I would sincerely like to know.

As mentioned, if you use the proper implement under the proper conditions and operate the tractor properly then HST should hold up as good as or better than a geared machine.

That's all there is to it right? Or is that too many 'propers' and 'properlys' for you? If so, are you asking which type will handle abuse better? Which type will handle more load than it is built to handle? Which will last longer under extreme conditions? I don't think anyone knows.

I think if you had two mythical machines, identical in every way including, pay attention here, including drawbar hp and the only difference being that one is HST and the other gear. Put them through the same tillage use over time and I'd guess it would be a wash. Maybe even a nod to the HST to last longer. But, the key word there is 'mythical'. I don't think any of us, when considering our needs can exclude cost.

So:

The dollar/HP angle can still come into play here. Consider a $18,000, 45HP gear tractor and ground engaging implement 'x' and soil condition 'y'. It handles that implement adequately under those soil conditions with regular use over time. Now, take that same $18,000 and get the highest HP HST you can buy (35 HP at best) and use that same implement 'x' under the same soil conditions 'y' with regular use over time. My guess is that the HST will have problems related specifically to that use before the gear tractor. Now this is no great revelation. The same would be true if you put a 35 HP geared tractor into the equation. In other words, given the same stress, the less powerful tractor is likely to have problems before the more powerful tractor, if you had to put odds on it. (And again guys, we have to assume the same general build, tires and set up, otherwise you simply cannot keep these inane theoretical......less inane and theoretical.