Gear drive vs hydro

[N80]

Help Wanted: New George needed for Circular Conversational Work in a sophisticated no-pay environment. Duties include:

Do I get to fill in the blanks?

 

[dmccarty]

On the other hand, you and some others have rose colored glasses for only one type of transmission. Then add in its not about the transmission, it's about the size of the tractor for the same $. But not real cheap tractor. Only one specific example where a stripped model is being compared to a luxury model. Fine.

Earlier I had posted these price quotes from 2000 for the same tractor model with different transmissions. HST would have code me quite a bit more money for less HP.

A JD4700 PowerReverser is 21,355. Same tractor with HST was 22,910. A difference of 1,555. HP was 41.5 vs 40.0

A TC40 with gears was 15,600 and with HST was 17,500. A difference of 1,900. HP was 35 vs 33.2

TC35 with gears was 14,700 and HST was 16,600. 1,900 difference again. HP was 29.6 vs 29.1 which is not much of a difference. Typeo?

I bought the 4700 PowerReverser. $1500 is alot of money and basically bought the MX 6 rotary cutter. So is an HST tranny worth a rotary cutter? Not in my book its not. I need a mower far more than I need HST.

Later,
Dan

 

[Soundguy]

Under ideal conditions.. might be a wash or so close of a race as to not have a well defined winner. i know there are a few IH hydro's from years past.. while I'm sure some of them are still running.. what I've heard mostly is that you just keep putting heavier oil in them till they no longer pull.. then you throw them away.

Now.. back to the question.. so far al that has been discussed was ideal conditions.. heck.. lets throw in some reality and go with non ideal.. or even 'abuse' conditions.

Put that identical HST and gear tractor thru the paces for decades.. except.. don't change or even check the oil in them.. add some water and grit...

Can't tell you how many gear trans antiques I've draind the tranny oil on and had 5 gallons of choclate milkshake that had probably been in there 20 years, and smelled like a sealed tomb full of rotting carcasses, and then when i cleaned the bottom of the sump there was an inch of thick gooy gritty gunk in there.... and no filter on this splash lubed system.

Kick that level of care over to an hst.. no new filters.. ever.. no new oil.. low oil.. water in the oil. and a kids playground bucket full of sand in the system... that's pretty much 'standard -noworries mate' package for the average antique gear trans...

that's the sad facts.. not all tractors get the attention they need.. the simpler designes tend to be more robust and hold up to abuse better than over-ticked high performance systems in the long run... vs 'white-glove and lab coat conditions for both in which you may not see a lifespan difference worth mentioning..

soundguy

As mentioned, if you use the proper implement under the proper conditions and operate the tractor properly then HST should hold up as good as or better than a geared machine.

That's all there is to it right? Or is that too many 'propers' and 'properlys' for you? If so, are you asking which type will handle abuse better? Which type will handle more load than it is built to handle? Which will last longer under extreme conditions? I don't think anyone knows.

I think if you had two mythical machines, identical in every way including, pay attention here, including drawbar hp and the only difference being that one is HST and the other gear. Put them through the same tillage use over time and I'd guess it would be a wash. Maybe even a nod to the HST to last longer. But, the key word there is 'mythical'. I don't think any of us, when considering our needs can exclude cost.

So:

The dollar/HP angle can still come into play here. Consider a $18,000, 45HP gear tractor and ground engaging implement 'x' and soil condition 'y'. It handles that implement adequately under those soil conditions with regular use over time. Now, take that same $18,000 and get the highest HP HST you can buy (35 HP at best) and use that same implement 'x' under the same soil conditions 'y' with regular use over time. My guess is that the HST will have problems related specifically to that use before the gear tractor. Now this is no great revelation. The same would be true if you put a 35 HP geared tractor into the equation. In other words, given the same stress, the less powerful tractor is likely to have problems before the more powerful tractor, if you had to put odds on it. (And again guys, we have to assume the same general build, tires and set up, otherwise you simply cannot keep these inane theoretical......less inane and theoretical.

 

[N80]

Dan, what I think he is suggesting is that if money is the object, instead of buying a Rolls-Royce 45 hp gear tractor for $20,000 you could get a $20,000 45 hp HST Belarus-Renault-Fiat (new European brand collaboration, with Chinese parts assembled in a cave in Ukraine and marketed by Renault-Fiat for the prestige value.)

Of course that makes no sense at all.

 

[Soundguy]

cunning linguist

And here I thought it was only james bond that fell into that category!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

No - just asking out of curiosity since any time anyone mentions doing any type of ground engaging work the concensous is to stay away from the hydro and buy a gear. So I assumed that there was a lot of evidence/experience showing that all other things being equal, a gear would outlast or outperform a hydro for this type of work. Seems that the real reason is that you can get more hp for the money or the horsepower needed for less which I can't argue with.

Not to kick in tangent info there.. but most of the heavy tilalge done in this country.. well.. most of the convential stuff has already been done.. and most of it was done with an old 2wd gear tractor of some sort. Cheap.. no frills.. lots of hp.. lower cost.. plow a straight line... etc.

If i was buying primarilly for dragging a ripper shank all day every day.. i can't see spending the price differential for hydro..... and even if there is only a small % of extra hp loss.. why take it.. get the one more suited for the job.... if I was doing loader work all day, every day... I think an HST might be in my barn... it's all a matter of application.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

That about sums it up for me. And, that if you are a Zen Clutch Master, Order of the Stick, you can get a fair amount of work out of a crummy old beggars-can't-be-choosers gear grinder. And that at the end of the day your left knee will hurt.

hey.. now .. that's catchy.... order of the stick....

Reminds me of the ford 8spd gearbox.. almost universally refered to as a 'crashbox'.. still one of the most robust trannies ford turned out for their tractors though...

George.. remember .. not everyone can learn to drive a stick.. and some that do.. aren't good at it... that's what auto's are for!

soundguy

 

[N80]

George.. remember .. not everyone can learn to drive a stick.. and some that do.. aren't good at it... that's what auto's are for!

soundguy

You might be right. But even my 14 y.o. daughter can get around on the thing.

 

[CrazyQ]

Wow! That is sloooooow. I can hardly see the utility in a gear that low, unless you have plenty more to work with. But if you do, that's pretty cool. How many forward gears does it have?



Yes, as we speak the safety gods are getting all red in the face and preparing for bluster. And I'd have to say, I'd never do that....but at 1/4 mph I can see how it would be tempting?

No operator presence switch on that model?

12 forward gears up to 17 mph. I will never use any more than High 2nd gear. No safety switch on the seat.

 

[CrazyQ]

Are you talking talking about getting off a moving tractor too? Do you guys ride in the bucket while doing this?

Haven't tried that! Does sound fun though...I have some limbing to do on a couple of trails. Where can I get a remote control for the loader hydraulics?