American made tractors?

[MessickFarmEqu]

I've got one concern if GM tanks... many someone can answer this for me. What happens to all those pensions? Do all those people loose their retirement... or are the tax payers on the hook for that too? Neither are good, both are expensive and in my mind would warrent some amout of government assistance. At least I can understand that more than AIG.

 

[SnowRidge]

I've got one concern if GM tanks... many someone can answer this for me. What happens to all those pensions? Do all those people loose their retirement... or are the tax payers on the hook for that too? Neither are good, both are expensive and in my mind would warrent some amout of government assistance. At least I can understand that more than AIG.

No, the pensions were transferred to a union managed trust fund several years ago.

 

[BungeeII]

VEBA was ~partially~ funded, I believe. (I could be wrong about that.) White-collar jobs were not union, so those guys (line supervisers, foremen, etc) could be looking at losing everything.

 

[thunderworks]

There have been a lot of good posts about this topic, many of which I agree with, but I think there is another theme that no one has touched on. Along with greedy management, excessively strong unions, obscene compensation for officers, there is also the topic of the American's consumer habits which have consistently pushed prices lower at the expense of quality. Our cultural bias to instantly gratify our wants, regardless of our ability to pay (hence the credit problem), has created the Walmarting of America. Quality doesn't drive decisions. Only price. Look how many posts there are on this forum by guys looking for the lowest possible price. The need to be "competitive" drives suppliers, manufacturers, and retailers to seek ever cheaper sources of goods and services. Tractors (or anything) made in less expensive economies, are purchased by the American consumer who is driven predominantly by price.

Complex topic, and I'm clearly no expert . . . but wanted to throw out another idea that I truly believe is involved in this issue.

 

[redneckford]

There have been a lot of good posts about this topic, many of which I agree with, but I think there is another theme that no one has touched on. Along with greedy management, excessively strong unions, obscene compensation for officers, there is also the topic of the American's consumer habits which have consistently pushed prices lower at the expense of quality. Our cultural bias to instantly gratify our wants, regardless of our ability to pay (hence the credit problem), has created the Walmarting of America. Quality doesn't drive decisions. Only price. Look how many posts there are on this forum by guys looking for the lowest possible price. The need to be "competitive" drives suppliers, manufacturers, and retailers to seek ever cheaper sources of goods and services. Tractors (or anything) made in less expensive economies, are purchased by the American consumer who is driven predominantly by price.

Complex topic, and I'm clearly no expert . . . but wanted to throw out another idea that I truly believe is involved in this issue.

Exactly!!! Look what happen to the Murray Lawnmower---Believe it or not it was a fine mower in its day then they began to sell to Walmart----Build 10,000 mower for this price and we will buy them-----So every year they cut the quality a little to get the business until there was no quality left and no business---Briggs had to buy them the cover their loss----Quality still matters---no one even the union person whats to pay for it anymore---Alot of people would buy a qualitiy product but that segment of the market is so small that the MFG's don't want to increase quality for that small market!

 

[intel]

good point, not that many people have quality being the main factor when buying something. i have even slacked on quality versus price. I still love to find items made in the USA.

 

[N80]

there is also the topic of the American's consumer habits which have consistently pushed prices lower at the expense of quality.

I agree, I think our desire for quality is impaired but I think it is fueled by more than just price. For one thing, Walmart is pretty well known for contracting with a vender, say Sperry shoes. Once they corner the market on what used to be a popular and well made shoe, they drive competition out of business due to their lower price and exclusivity. When the competition is gone, they then low ball Sperry and Sperry has no one left to sell to but Walmart. Their only alternative is to cut corners on quality. It still says Sperry on the label but has nothing in common with what the name used to mean.

Where I disagree is with the desire for a lower price by consumers. I think it is natural, and it should drive competition and growth IF the consumer is well informed and IF the consumer has venders actively competing for his business. If I can get a pair of binoculars from Leupold that is as good or better as a pair from Swarovski for less, as an informed consumer it would be stupid to buy the Swarovski for nothing more than name. The problem is the the typical American is not an informed consumer. Branding, marketing and price take president.

As for talk about auto unions, you guys ever hear of 'job banking'? Look it up and tell me what you think about that. It is one of the most revolting things I've ever heard and it is just another reason that GM, Chrysler and Ford need to die. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Went 4 pages into Google after search on "Job Banking" and all results point to jobs related to Banking. Any other name for this?

 

[MossRoad]

That is the best way I have ever heard it stated. The greedy unions killed my town. We were a town of 120,000 in 1999, today we have about 65,000 thanks to the unions. The wanted more and more and were warned that the jobs would just leave because the demands could not be met. That's what happened. No one won. Shops closed, I lost my job as a pilot, people moved, and the town went to crap. We were in the running for a new Honda plant that would produce 200,000 Civic's per year. Honda flat out stated the reason they did not chose to build here was the history of the Union's.

Chris

History repeats itself. Here in South Bend, Indiana the same thing happened to Studebaker in the 60's.

 

[MossRoad]

Exactly!!! Look what happen to the Murray Lawnmower---Believe it or not it was a fine mower in its day then they began to sell to Walmart----Build 10,000 mower for this price and we will buy them-----So every year they cut the quality a little to get the business until there was no quality left and no business---Briggs had to buy them the cover their loss----Quality still matters---no one even the union person whats to pay for it anymore---Alot of people would buy a qualitiy product but that segment of the market is so small that the MFG's don't want to increase quality for that small market!

Murray was always the low end scale of lawn mowers, even when I was a kid.