Best Home Defense Rifle?

[litework]

Yes, but that is a chance I'm willing to take 100% of the time as opposed to possibly shooting my wife, one of my kids, one of my kid's friends etc. Fortunately, I do not live alone in a war zone. If I did, I may not be so positively adamant about knowing exactly what is in the sights of my firearm. Making a positive identification of your target has been one consistent theme in the few courses I've taken for personal and home defense. What you consider a "complimentary tool at best" is considered an absolute mandatory requirement as I've been trained.

I don't believe I said anything about shooting anyone. I don't think anyone here is advocating shooting someone in the dark. I just think people often overestimate the ability of a flashlight to incapacitate someone. You're not going to subdue someone for 15 seconds while you decide what to do next. If you shine someone with a flashlight and it turns out to be a bad guy, expect that person to make the next few moments of your life miserable and act accordingly.

 

[dmccarty]

Ah.. so plain military pattern weapons are now 'black' weapons. That reminds me of the media calling every gun they can find an 'assault' weapon... 'Black' sounds ominous.. maybee even negative... Can't wait till the media catches on to that one.. Just another way to demonize guns I figure...

We need to be carefull how we stereotype our tools.. lest they be cast into a bad light unintentionally.

Too late. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, there were several end of the world books and at least one was made into a movie. I think the movie I am remember was The Stand based on the Stephen King book.

ALL of the bad guys had black plastic rifles usually M16/AR15's.

ALL of the good guys had wood stocked rifles mainly bolt action hunting rifles.

Later,
Dan

 

[schmism]

Too late. Back in the late 80s, early 90s,

what do you mean "back then" its still true today that the good guy is denied weapons while the bad guys dont care and has them anyway.

 

[dmccarty]

Nit comment on my part.

Fact is, unlike the T.V shows, when people go clearing a house, you NEVER seperate from your team.

The word SHOULD should be inserted between you and NEVER in the quoted sentence.

Sometimes stuff happens and seperation does occur. And not just tool bags not tethered to space stations.

Staying put and letting the bad guy find you is a good tactic depending if friendlies are also in the house and where they are located.

If someone breaks into my house I will not be waiting for the bad guy(s) to enter my room. I will clear the house to get to the kids. Once the kids are secure I can hunker down. The odds of me getting from my room to the kids room with out making contact with said bad guys is slim to none.

As has been said but should be repeated, you had better know what you are doing with deadly force. Using a rifle as a defense against two legged critters is problematic as had been stated over and over.

If deadly force is used whether from a stick, a fist, a car, a rock, a hand gun or a long arm, the user had better be able to articulate why deadly force was used. It danged well should be reasonable and valid based on the law.

Two cases. One in FLA and one in NC. Around 1991 a guy entered his home in FLA and found a thug carrying the home owners TV. FLA law at the time said one could use deadly force to stop a felony. Since this was a burglary it was a felony. The homeowner grabbed a 380 and chased the guy out of the house. Said homeowner shot several times at said thug and hit same. I can't remember if the thief died but deadly force was used.

Long story short is that the homeowner was charged and tried. The jury found him NOT guilty. Was it WORTH it to use deadly force in those circumstances? Was the stress and worry about going to prison worth a TV set? Did the cost of the TV exceed the legal bills?

When I moved to NC there was a case of another homeowner. He heard noises in his garage during the day. He investigated and found a couple of kids in his garage stealing his motorcycle. The kids ran from the garage and in doing so at one point ran towards the homeowner. The homeowner fired a .22 rifle at the kids. Killed one. The kid was shot in the back.

Homeowner said he was afraid for his life. He was charged and went to trial. He was found NOT guilty. But I think he was danged lucky. Again, was the motorcycle worth the legal bills? Was it worth the stress of worrying about going to prison?

You had better know your local laws. If one uses deadly force to prevent a property crime, even if the law says it is allowed, do so at your own risk. One should be able to show that your life or others was at risk before using deadly force.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

what do you mean "back then" its still true today that the good guy is denied weapons while the bad guys dont care and has them anyway.

Back then is in reference to the "black guns" being demonized in the 80s/90s. Which is in reference to Soundguys comment that the term will be used by the media. Too late. Already done.

Later,
Dan

 

[Sigarms]

The word SHOULD should be inserted between you and NEVER in the quoted sentence.

Yes Dan, you are correct.

If someone breaks into my house I will not be waiting for the bad guy(s) to enter my room. I will clear the house to get to the kids. Once the kids are secure I can hunker down. The odds of me getting from my room to the kids room with out making contact with said bad guys is slim to none.

Dan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking you'll "clear" the area to get to your kids? Or perhaps it would be easier to take the wife with you? Then again, before buying or building a house, this is something you should take into consideration! (I'm only joking).

That said, I think you're taking the correct action that once everyone in your family is "secure", to hunker down.

That said, for all the training the police do, remember Payton Strickland from Wilminton a couple of years ago?

If not, do an internet search on the name. Goes to show you how people who "supposedly" have the proper training deal with stressful situations with firearms in a house (or exactly, per Mr. Strickland's situation, how the police handle their weapons outside of a house).

After thinking about it, I think Dave has it right, the best defensive weapon for inside a house is a handgun. A pump 20 gauge in a close second IMO

 

[AlanB]

Sig, is that you in your avatar?

This was last month, my favorite pic. End of the Nantahala

And yes, I think it is a little late to not call them Black Guns, I am hardly the inventor of that term.

 

[dmccarty]

Dan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking you'll "clear" the area to get to your kids? Or perhaps it would be easier to take the wife with you? Then again, before buying or building a house, this is something you should take into consideration! (I'm only joking).[\quote]

Figured I would just leave her in the bedroom. THEY sure don't want to mess with her. Too late on the house. I designed the house so its my fault I kept the kids rooms as far away from my room as possible. Not far enough away as it turns out. I'm thinking of building a hole in the ground that they can't find. I'll take the dog with me to my hole so they can't use the dog to find me. At least that is what I tell them....

That said, for all the training the police do, remember Payton Strickland from Wilminton a couple of years ago?

Yep, I remember. The officer messed up. A friend of mine got shot in the head trying to find a rapist in a house. My friend should not have gone in the house alone. Mistake 1. And in his case not at all since the victim was outside. Mistake 2. He did not see the rapist in the closet. Mistake 3. People and while some in our society will take exception to this, Officers are People too , People make mistakes sometimes they are fatal mistakes. My friend recovered. He got real lucky.

In our case our house is very open. The kitchen is in the middle of the house and we leave the task lighting on 24x7x365 so we can see getting around the house at night. The only time those lights have been turned off is when we loose power. Original light bulbs and they are four years old at this point. I won't be clearing the house in the dark. I'll turn on more lights as needed. And there is always the mag light.

Always watch the hands. They eyes can't kill ya. The hands can.

Later,
Dan

 

[Sigarms]

Yep, I remember. The officer messed up. A friend of mine got shot in the head trying to find a rapist in a house. My friend should not have gone in the house alone. Mistake 1. And in his case not at all since the victim was outside. Mistake 2. He did not see the rapist in the closet. Mistake 3. People and while some in our society will take exception to this, Officers are People too , People make mistakes sometimes they are fatal mistakes. My friend recovered. He got real lucky.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

My case in point was not to find fault, but use an example of what happens when you have live ammo, your finger is on the trigger and your blood is pumping "expecting" perhaps to find something bad that can kill you.

Now imagine a "regular" homeowner who goes and investigates a noise with a gun. Thing about the military (since M4's are being used as example on what the military uses) is that you can sometimes shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[bake321]

You guys crack me up. The OP didn't ask "Should I get a rifle? or Can I get a rifle? or what is best for home defense?" I think it was "If I were to get a rifle......." First a rifle and a shotgun are not the same, plus he allready has a shotgun. Second he is not asking permission, this is America, he has the right. I have a AK47 and when I'm asked why I have one I say that I have heard what they sound like from the wrong end and wanted to see what the proper end was like, also I own one because I can. For all you Annie Oakley types, when I was in the Marines we were taught that he who gets the most lead in the air the quickest usually won. I shot expert on the range with what I consider an excellent gun the M14, but we had a full week of snap-in and plenty of time to place our shots. In combat it dosn't work that way. If your in a life defence situation your nerves are going to be such that you will be lucky to point and shoot.

Bake