So would you buy a new GM truck now?

[chumly2071]

The crap that came out of Detroit in the past is not coming out any more. They have top quality products, but because it is NOT Japanese, they seem to get snubbed.

BS...
not all of their stuff is crap, but what quality do they really have to brag about?

My parents bought a new 2005 dodge caravan. 4 sets of brakes in 60,xxx miles, with my mom driving (not an aggressive driver in the least), but it apparently is not a problem with their van.

My good friend has a 2008 Chevy Equinox, that has had 2 sets of cam/lifters, in 34,xxx miles, and in the last set had to also put on new cylinder heads. And the engine is making the same death noises it made, yet again.

My bought new 2005 Diesel Ram, at less than 36000 miles and no towing, had to have the drivelines rebuilt, a bad wheel bearing, and the seat falling apart. I was told to pound sand with my interior and 70000 mile powertain warranty.

My cousin bought new F150 with the modular 5.4 engine, and a good friend with the v10 modular engine, and yet another close friend with a bought new 5.4 F150: All had to have the heads helicoiled due to the spark plugs popping out. and not just one hole either. Not under warranty, but the aftermarket came out with a kit in order to fix the problem as there were so many cases of it.

How many f150s caught fire due to the wiring harness before they were forced to do a recall?


The foreign brands are not without their problems or faults by far, but a case in point was the Toyota trucks with the frame rot issues. How many of those were bought back, regardless of how many owners, or miles, at KBB blue "good condition" book value, without a forced recall? How many honda accords, or Toyata corollas get 250,000 miles without anything but oil, gas, and tires. How many new plants and jobs have other auto companies created in this country? How many plants and jobs have the big three built in foreign countries, and not here? How many have they shuttered here?

For whatever reason, whether poor management, bad designs, or the actions of the UAW (who can pin it all on one specific problem?), the products and service of the big three have driven plenty of people off... And now I am supposed to want to save them from a demise of their own making? After activley choosing to support their business and supposedly buying "American", at a premium price, then being repeatedly told to go pound sand for warranty and quality issues? I have a hard time digesting that.

 

[wincher]

I have a 96 ram with over 200,000 on it and as much as i would like to believe i could throw my money at a new one and the the outstanding luck i have had with this on i have the fear that i would be as disappointed as the people i know who have gm's less then 2 years old with more issues then you can count. I think it is time to force the big 3 to fight to be competitive. IE get rid of the unions at all costs it is business and make a product we can be proud of again.. I still love my RAM.

 

[Builder]

OK, so it is a LOAN, using our tax dollars. Who is going to make sure that this loan gets paid back on time (or at all with the way big business and politicians work), and is used to support growth within THIS country?

Well, the last time the gov't loaned money to one of the Big 3 (Chysler) it was all paid back with interest, I might add.

The way I'm reading the proposed loan, if the money isn't paid back, in their bankruptcy proceedings, the gov't gets their piece of the left over carcass.

Do you have any idea how many plants GM, Ford & Chrysler have built in this country? And why is it a bad thing if they invest overseas? Do you know GM sells over 1/2 of its' vehicles outside the US? Why can't they be a global company? Aren't we always hearing "it's a global economy" today? Don't Toyota & BMW & Nissan have plants all over the world? Sure they do!!!!

Read man, read more on this stuff from non biased sources and you'll find the truth.

 

[Builder]

BS...
not all of their stuff is crap, but what quality do they really have to brag about?

My parents bought a new 2005 dodge caravan. 4 sets of brakes in 60,xxx miles, with my mom driving (not an aggressive driver in the least), but it apparently is not a problem with their van.

My good friend has a 2008 Chevy Equinox, that has had 2 sets of cam/lifters, in 34,xxx miles, and in the last set had to also put on new cylinder heads. And the engine is making the same death noises it made, yet again.

My bought new 2005 Diesel Ram, at less than 36000 miles and no towing, had to have the drivelines rebuilt, a bad wheel bearing, and the seat falling apart. I was told to pound sand with my interior and 70000 mile powertain warranty.

My cousin bought new F150 with the modular 5.4 engine, and a good friend with the v10 modular engine, and yet another close friend with a bought new 5.4 F150: All had to have the heads helicoiled due to the spark plugs popping out. and not just one hole either. Not under warranty, but the aftermarket came out with a kit in order to fix the problem as there were so many cases of it.

How many f150s caught fire due to the wiring harness before they were forced to do a recall?


The foreign brands are not without their problems or faults by far, but a case in point was the Toyota trucks with the frame rot issues. How many of those were bought back, regardless of how many owners, or miles, at KBB blue "good condition" book value, without a forced recall? How many honda accords, or Toyata corollas get 250,000 miles without anything but oil, gas, and tires. How many new plants and jobs have other auto companies created in this country? How many plants and jobs have the big three built in foreign countries, and not here? How many have they shuttered here?

For whatever reason, whether poor management, bad designs, or the actions of the UAW (who can pin it all on one specific problem?), the products and service of the big three have driven plenty of people off... And now I am supposed to want to save them from a demise of their own making? After activley choosing to support their business and supposedly buying "American", at a premium price, then being repeatedly told to go pound sand for warranty and quality issues? I have a hard time digesting that.

Well Chumly, what can we say-your mind is made up. All your aquintances and your parents got garbage built in USA. I gotta think you're a younger guy-20's maybe. I'm 45 years old, have owned dozens of Ford & GM trucks and quite a few cars only had one that gave me more trouble than I wanted. I had some Ford transmission problems back in the late 90's, too. My trucks were used to plow snow, tow trailers and routinely got overloaded or plowed for 2-3 days at a time, rarely shutting the engine off sometimes. They made me TONS of money and generally gave me good service.

In that time span I also owned a Toyota Landcruiser that had bad rings & cylinders with 65,000 on the odo. I've seen more rusted out Toyota pickups than I care to remember. I never saw anything really "exciting" made by Toyota. nothing that would smoke the tires or pull a house down, but owned plenty of domestics that would. I've seen nissan get saved by Renault. I've seen foreign govt's that support & protect their vehicles more than our gov't supports and protects our domestics. I've seen BMW's with $7,000 transmission repair bills and $269 oil changes.

Frankly, I'm sick of the bad raps that the domestics get. I think they make excellent larger vehicles & trucks and that's what most Americans like to drive. I think the Japanese & Euros make great smaller vehicles. That's what tree huggers & most liberals like to drive. When oil goes to $150 a barrel, guess what happens. People turn their anger to the Big 3, but when fuel prices stabilize, they buy Hummers & Expeditions like hotcakes. The news media is liberal biased and therefore will bash our big 3 anytime they can, even though GM offers more 30+ MPG models than any car company in the world. That seems to get selectively ignored. I firmly believe they'd be happy if poor old Big 3 just went under. Then we could all drive Priuses & 145HP gas mini pickups.

Then I'll have to listen to everyone whine like piglets lookin for a teet about how we don't have any big full size diesel trucks or cars that'll smaoke the tires anymore.

Nope, not me. I love GM Ford & chrysler and my wife and I have decided to stand by them. Just bought a beautiful Tahoe 2 months ago and loaded her to the gills. Tons of power & room. Rides like a Caddy. Feels safe-like it would smash a Japanese car in an accident. I like that. If GM goes down tomorrow-no regrets about buying, I'll just keep driving my GMC 3500 4x4 and loving it, wishing they could still be around to build my next diesel truck.

Rant over. Thanks for reading it.

 

[Scooby074]

Warranty,Warranty Warranty... Thats whats important to me. To me it matters who is going to stand behind their vehicle.Growing up all we had were domestics. Ive owned 2 -F150 and a F250. Dad currently has a F150 King Ranch before that it was a Chev 1500.

Dads KR has been the most poison truck ive seen. Ford basically wont do anything under warranty.Remember were talking about a $55K vehicle. The truck is starting to rot. Its a 2003 with 108000 Kms and the paint is blistering.Running boards and bumpers are rusting thru the chrome too. Ford says its caused by "environmental conditions" which is BS and not warrantied.If it cant stand our enviroment then it shouldnt be sold here.Not to mention the fact its on its 2nd tranny and rear end. I cant count how many ball joints and tie rods the thing has gone thru. Of course all this was brought to their attention before the warranty was up.. their attitude? basically you can go Pound Sand! All these issues, like the spark plugs and warped manifolds on the 5.4 are well known. Ford wont do a thing.

So with all this under our belts, Dad bought a Lexus and I bought a Tacoma. He has never been happier. Their dealerships and warranty are top notch in my experience. Their service managers and parts guys will bend over backwards to accommodate you. I can tell you our family will NEVER own another Ford. Chev maybe. If i know theyre going to survive to warranty my vehicle and i get good reports on their service department. Honestly i dont think they can match Toyota service, but id give them the benefit of the doubt.

Say what you want about Toyota, but they stepped up with the Tacoma buyback. Do you think youll ever see a domestic do that? I dont. Ford should buy back all those broken modulars and trucks like dads. His frame is already starting to rot. My Tacoma's frame is mint.

 

[gemini5362]

Remember Chrysler in the 80's. They emerged a much stronger company afterwards. Ain't no way GM is going under. Get aload of this. I'm in the Middle East right now as I type and GM has a huge presence here. They can't get them fast enough here. A 2 month back log for a new car or truck and they want the fully loaded top models not the econo boxes. Chevy trucks and SUV's are everywhere and most are the ones costing over 40K dollars US. For some reason Ford and Chrysler are practically non existent. Next in line are the European stuff. All work trucks are cab over style Mitsubishi or the like.

Depending on which middle east country you are in Fords will be pretty much totally non existent along with Coca Cola. Ford and Coca Cola have big factories in isreal so they are pretty much persona non grata in middle east countries.

 

[gemini5362]

I am sure that the people that read my posts are suprised I have not posted in this thread before now. To be honest this is the first time I started reading this thread. Interesting reading. I read through the whole thread. Everyone is blaming the UAW for all of the car companies problems. For those who have not read my posts before. I actually am employed by a national union directly to do work for them. (not anything associated with the UAW) I also have my regular job where I am a very loyal union member. I might have a bit of a different opinion about the problem than the posters I have read. Lets talk about executive salaries. Is the CEO of ford making millions of dollars a year plus bonuses and how good a job is he doing. His company is going to be out of buisness in a year unless the taxpayer loans him billions of dollars. The CEO of GM is in the same boat except he says he wont last the year unless we give him billions of dollars now. ditto for chrysler. Does someone that runs a company so badly they are going bankrupt deserve to make millions of dollars a year and other millions in bonuses. These are companies that are going bankrupt they say. It was not until someone in congress raised cain about them coming to DC in their private jets to beg for money that they decided maybe we could sell those jets. How many does ford have is it something like 4 and I am pretty sure that GM has 7 according to the news. I may be wrong but to the best of my knowledge none of the Unions in the United States has their own fleet of corporate jets to fly around in. I know the president of my union takes commercial airline flights anywhere he goes. I have seen a lot of posts about the decision of the big 3 to make bad car designs as part of the problem. How many members of the UAW are in on the decision of which car designs to make and sell. Or How many members of the UAW are in on the decisions of what type of materials to make the car out of. Every post I have seen on here about what is actually wrong with the cars themselves appear to be the result of a decision on how to make the vehicle. All decisions like that are management decisions not union. Everyone is talking about the benfits that union workers get. Do you think that those benefits are given at gunpoint. Does the head of the UAW go to the CEO of ford and point a gun to his head and say you are going to give us health insurance, or higher wages, or no layoff protection ( which I did not know the UAW had by the way) NO he doesnt those benefits are negotiated. The auto manufacturer senior management had something that they wanted workers to do. In exchange for that they negotiated health benefits or wages or something. I can guarantee for every thing that the union got they gave something up. Any time that an auto manufacturer did not like the terms that the union wanted they have always had the ability to close the door and stop making cars. The fact that they did not do that means they thought that in contract negotiations what they union asked for was acceptable in comparison to what the union gave up. In government unions they cannot strike so their contracts if not mutually agreed on are decided by an Arbitrator in arbitration and both sides have to take what the arbitrator gives. The auto manufacturers dont have to do that they can say no and close their doors.

I see everyone talking about the union taking pay cuts and benefit cuts etc. Go talk to the various unions whose employees work for American Airlines. AA was going bankrupt and the unions agreed to take big cuts. Some of the higher paid certified airline mechanics were taking 10 to 12 dollar an hour cuts. When the contracts were all signed and everyone had lost salary and benefits it came out in the news about upper AA management. AA was worried their managers might bolt and go to another airline because of their financial problems so they offered any upper level manager that stayed another year a bounus equal to 100 per cent of their salary. (these are the same managers who ran the company into bankruptcy) plus their normal benefits for staying another year. I fail to see how everyone is doing their part to keep the company afloat when union employees get cuts and management gets 100 per cent bonuses. Have you seen any member of management in any of the big 3 getting a pay cut or benefit cut except the CEO and that is so ridiculous as to be funny. The CEO is going to go down to 1 dollar a year salary. Lee Iococa did that and what he didnt mention was that he got how many million dollars in stocks as a bonus after the end of that first year. How do you live on 1.00 a year, of course if you were the CEO of home depot and you got kicked out of that job with a multimillion dollar golden parachute then you can probably live on one dollar a year. Which of the big 3 CEO is that ?


The unions all hate walmart because of their anti union stance but if you look at a lot of walmarts their hourly employees dont have insurance, they only work 38 hours a week or less so that they are not full time employees. They basically have no benefits. But everyone of their managers has full time employment, health insurance, stock options etc. Is that the kind of life you want for your children and grandchildren and your great grandchildren. Unless they are able to be managers they wont have health insurance, or benefits and they wont care about the big 3 because they wont make enough to buy a new car.



Also the last thing I am going to put in this post. I would have to look and see but I believe the extended warranty on my duramax is with an insurance company. It is not necessarily a warranty as it is an insurance plan. I dont think it is tied into GM. GM might own the insuance company that issues it but I would bet that is a different company and if it is an insurance plan that might come under different government regulations

 

[wkpoor]

I may be wrong but to the best of my knowledge none of the Unions in the United States has their own fleet of corporate jets to fly around in.

I think you are wrong on this one. At least they used to ....Teamsters used to come in to Columbus all the time in their Gulfstream IV. I remember saying WOW! if the members just knew where a huge chunk of the union dues were going!

 

[gemini5362]

Actually from what I could read on the net the teamsters cleaned up their act and the president that was elected to do that sold the jet. But thank you for pointing that out. I dont mind a bit when someone shows that I am wrong I learn from the experience

 

[Bedlam]

I was wondering , Ive heard of this plan that pays the workers if they are ''laid off'. Has it changed? It used to be funded with dues paid to the Union , at least thats what I understood it to be. In which case it would be nothing more than a better unemployment fund. Of course without all the govt red tape.