There are actually (2) good ways to skin this cat. The first is to fix it right as FWJ suggests. If you are not too mechanically inclined or blessed with lots of spare time, the simpler approach is to hang on to it until next summer when it is good and warm, and sell it then. That make/size tractor is always in high demand and you can usually sell them fast in almost any condition for more than $3000. Buy yourself a new tractor, or use that money to go shopping in the fall (when it is good and cold) for a used one that starts good then. Cold starting ability is definitely one of the best indicators of engine condition. Anytime I find some old iron that fires right up in the cold (especially on 6 volts), I know I am looking at a good one. I would rarely consider purchasing any old tractor that was built with 6 volt and had been converted to 12, and I would never buy a used diesel without seeing how it starts cold.
Ford 3000 - Blueish hue smoke story / question
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JB4310
Super Member
So what's better the manifold heater or the block heater?
I would think the manifold heater would get her to fire regardless of how cold the block was, which I guess could contribute to cold starting wear to internal parts, with the block heater the block is all pre warmed ready to run but with low compression and a cold fuel mix might not be a big help getting it to fire?
I know with my Cummins powered trucks there is a grid heater in the manifold and a bowl warmer for the fuel, both come on during the "wait to start" time, that gets it to start down into the teens, anything colder and it really wants to be plugged in a couple of hours first to warm the block.
I would think the manifold heater would get her to fire regardless of how cold the block was, which I guess could contribute to cold starting wear to internal parts, with the block heater the block is all pre warmed ready to run but with low compression and a cold fuel mix might not be a big help getting it to fire?
I know with my Cummins powered trucks there is a grid heater in the manifold and a bowl warmer for the fuel, both come on during the "wait to start" time, that gets it to start down into the teens, anything colder and it really wants to be plugged in a couple of hours first to warm the block.
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Farmwithjunk
Super Member
I'd say there's not an across the board answer as to which is "better" in all cases. I'd rather have the block heater from day one myself. Warm engines start better, even when down on compression. Some engines need the pre-heaters. Some don't. Ideally, BOTH would be a good idea. Some diesels need NIETHER. My MF150 w/Perkins AD3-152 3-cylinder diesel has never failed to start QUICKLY, even in sub-zero weather. The ONLY trick is having a good battery. It's been cold started countless hundreds (thousands?) of times. 39 years later, it still has excellent compression, no excess smoking, no blow-by, and still dyno's at same HP as new. For the last 10 years, it's spent winters in a heated shop, so the abuse has ended!
The ONLY thing I'll EVER use ether for is blowing a tire out on the bead. (Another thread on TBN!) That stuff is death to any engine. If you've ever heard a diesel run on ether, you'll understand why I say that. (I've heard several actually run on nothing but ether for a few seconds. Sounds gruesome to say the very least)
JB4310
Super Member
I have heard my little ford run on pure ether and I thought it was all done!!! ready for the bone yard.
The kid that works for me said he couldn't get it to start after running the tank dry and refueling, so I told him to use a "little" starting fluid, liquid fire is the brand I have, not sure if it's ether. Well then he tells me now it wont even crank over. Bound up, he must have used more than a little. So we pull start it and when it fired up I just stood back and looked at it and thought man this can not be good, really thought it was toast, went on for a good 10-15 seconds which of course seemed like an eternity.
I'm sure it did some permanent damage as it seems to smoke a little longer at start up now.
When I was a young kid my first job out of school was at a landscape construction outfit up the road. They had a ford diesel loader tractor that was a bear to start in the winter. We only had gas tractors on our farm and I was not familiar with starting those tempermental diesels. The foreman told me to use either. Being inexperienced, I just read the directions on the can which I think said to spray into the air intake for 15 to 20 seconds. I did just that and will never forget the sound that old engine made for about 2 minutes after I cranked it over. How it stayed together I will never know. The foreman told me just to give it a little squirt the next time.
bontai_Joe
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For what it's worth, this thread has sure been educational for me. Since I've only got experience with small gas engines, I now know a little more about cold starting diesels.
"proper" use of ether is a 1 second squirt WHILE cranking the engine over.
"improper" use of ether is anything more than 1 second squirt or any squirt while NOT cranking the engine over.
"stupid" use of ether is to use it while activating the glow plugs!
"improper" use of ether is anything more than 1 second squirt or any squirt while NOT cranking the engine over.
"stupid" use of ether is to use it while activating the glow plugs!
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
That could get you burned!
Hardly.... Done correctly, the brief shot is sucked in through the air intake. Any "burn" will be in the internals of the engine. Spraying ether at an engine that's NOT turning over can result in some of the ether not being ingested by the engine. THAT would increase the likelyhood of getting burned.
Egon
Epic Contributor
Ah dear. There is a possibility of getting burned when adding any accelerant to an engine that is turning over. Back many a year when the companies I was working for the safety seminars I attended had this as one of the items often mentioned during the winter season. Its worse with gasoline engines though.
Doing it and being seen by the Right/Wrong person could have you out looking for a different employer!
If you add you are not supposed to do do it to an engine that is turning over and you are by the point the accelerant is being added. From a remote location it is a different matter.
Got a friend/coworker that passed over while doing just that!
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redneckford
Platinum Member
Ah dear. There is a possibility of getting burned when adding any accelerant to an engine that is turning over. Back many a year when the companies I was working for the safety seminars I attended had this as one of the items often mentioned during the winter season. Its worse with gasoline engines though.
Doing it and being seen by the Right/Wrong person could have you out looking for a different employer!
If you add you are not supposed to do do it to an engine that is turning over and you are by the point the accelerant is being added. From a remote location it is a different matter.
Got a friend/coworker that passed over while doing just that!
Didn't some of the "old" tractors have a factory built system to put an ether can in a holder and push a button to blow ether into the intake manifold while you sat on the seat and cranked the engine over!!! I know FORD and Deere had them on some of the larger machines.
