GM Truck Warranty

[WilliamBos]

All excellent points. Special attention to the anti-union sentiment of the Japanese. Just goes to show you that you do NOT need a union to be better off, and you can be as well off with out one.

 

[Dargo]

If the melon heads at the UAW/CAW don't take serious concessions, as well as management in the companies, all the companies have to do is file chapter 11, and the Union contract is dead.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. That is the most likely way that the contract the UAW has on the automakers will be restructured without any vote or consent from the union. A federal bankruptcy judge would restructure the contract, including pay and benefits, as they see fit to insure the viability of the company filing. There are other, more obscure and not as well known ways as well, but this option should be crystal clear to everyone.

 

[Dargo]

Dargo---Do we get to buy the GM and Chrysler vehicles at owner prices less the holdback etc???---after all we are part owners now!!!

Good point, but they'd likely make the U.S. citizens sort of like non-voting share holders who are not eligible for company benefits. Bummer. I've heard the new name (GM) Government Motors batted around for months now in jest.

 

[Dargo]

Go ahead drive them out of existance, how is things going for you now with your favorite crowd?

All fine and good except for one vital aspect; it's the union leadership that is driving the unions not only out of favor but out of existence. Granted, we all know that there are quite a few union schlubs on the line who don't hit a lick and when they do work, they do terrible work and the company can't get rid of them due to the union. However, I believe that for the most part, union workers are good people who have just been duped by the very organization that is supposed to be there for their benefit. The unions are driving themselves out of existence, not any other group or entity.

 

[Builder]

Another HUGE missed point here is that the Japanese just recently opened up their factories here don't have the billions to pay in legacy costs because they don't have any retirees yet.

Something like $1,200 of every GM, Ford or Chrysler car sold must be set aside just to pay for retirees benefits. Since the Japanese have only been here for ~15 years building cars, they have virtually NO retirees to care for until they die (like the big 3) because almost no one has gotten old enough to retire!

Just that fact alone helps you understand what a HUGE disadvantage the big 3 have!!!

 

[redneckford]

Another HUGE missed point here is that the Japanese just recently opened up their factories here don't have the billions to pay in legacy costs because they don't have any retirees yet.

Something like $1,200 of every GM, Ford or Chrysler car sold must be set aside just to pay for retirees benefits. Since the Japanese have only been here for ~15 years building cars, they have virtually NO retirees to care for until they die (like the big 3) because almost no one has gotten old enough to retire!

Just that fact alone helps you understand what a HUGE disadvantage the big 3 have!!!

So why all these added cost---isn't "Social Security" suppose to take care of all that---the system is broke----some think they are better than others---if social security is good enough for one it is good enough for all----this special retirement stuff---government, school teachers, railroads, car worker and all union retirement etc have to be the same---all social security no special people----someone made a commitment that the businesses will not support---why not charge the japanese for a part of that legacy cost now while they can afford it ----make they build a savings account now so that they can pay it if the future---oh wait that is what social security is suppose to do---just to many business have a loop hole not to be a part of the system----no double dipping---But social security must be a livable wage arrangement ----no one can live on $600--$1000 per month and have a car and pay utilities!!!!----AND GO TO THE DOCTOR---who pays when????---me me me!!!! What is left in your savings account!!!!

 

[Builder]

So why all these added cost---isn't "Social Security" suppose to take care of all that---the system is broke----some think they are better than others---if social security is good enough for one it is good enough for all----this special retirement stuff---government, school teachers, railroads, car worker and all union retirement etc have to be the same---all social security no special people----someone made a commitment that the businesses will not support---why not charge the japanese for a part of that legacy cost now while they can afford it ----make they build a savings account now so that they can pay it if the future---oh wait that is what social security is suppose to do---just to many business have a loop hole not to be a part of the system----no double dipping---But social security must be a livable wage arrangement ----no one can live on $600--$1000 per month and have a car and pay utilities!!!!----AND GO TO THE DOCTOR---who pays when????---me me me!!!! What is left in your savings account!!!!

Social Security couldn't pay 1/4 of anyone's total bills. Pension agreements were formed between the UAW & the Big 3 decades ago that lit the fuse to the bomb know as bankruptcy we are seeing now. They sealed their fates decades ago with those agreements back when they were the healthiest most powerful companies in the world. Now they're in ruins because of that generosity.

The Japanese aren't as generous with their retirees and they hardly have any here in the US anyway, so they're thousands of $$ ahead of the Big 3 with every car they produce and the lead gets bigger all the time.

Seems like the only way out is if the gov't somehow assumed their legacy costs, but that would mean higher taxes for us.

There's no way out and no easy answer. Everyone, employees, retirees, management and taxpayers are all going to have to pitch in for this to get resolved.

I know this: I'll be about the last person left standing to go buy a Toyota full size pickup if there's no Big 3 to buy from. They don't make anything that could possibly be of use for me for a work truck. Toyota scrapped their plans to build full size diesel trucks this summer anyway, not that I'd really want one.

 

[WilliamBos]

I know this: I'll be about the last person left standing to go buy a Toyota full size pickup if there's no Big 3 to buy from. They don't make anything that could possibly be of use for me for a work truck. Toyota scrapped their plans to build full size diesel trucks this summer anyway, not that I'd really want one.

You will have my Dad and myself standing beside you. And we will have a yard full of late model GMC's!!

 

[gemini5362]

Ah, now I understand. After reading this statement by you I needn't bother to read any further since it's painfully clear that I'm debating someone who has absolutely no concept of the subject at hand. Sorry I thought you may have had some grasp. My mistake.

If you are refering to the fact that the company can lower salaries then you would be correct. I was referring to anyone within the union. However if the company lowers them they would be subject to DOL complaints and lawsuits. In todays climate that is not a very big threat but it is something that they are subject to.

 

[redneckford]

GM - "Give Me"

No you got that all wrong---If the jap car companies are not going to pay their retiree cost ---medical and pension--- over the next 50 years who do you think is going to pay that cost---ain't nothing for nothing---the other industries and businesses that are trying to do the right thing by their employees---either we are capitalist MFG's or Socialist----we can't have it one way for some people and another for other's-----pay it now or pay it later ----that is the problem for the big 3(Japs want to pay it later???)------will they have the same problem in 25 years as the big 3 now??----there is a difference in FREE trade and FAIR trade ----someone better wakeup and understand the DIFFERENCE are we will all be in a soap line----I can't wait until cucumbers get to be $100 per pound---cause I can grow cucumbers and guard them with my little Winchester!!!!! Pickles anyone???? 100 lbs of pickles for one Honda car----WHAT A DEAL!!!!