GM Truck Warranty

[gemini5362]

I know that a lot of people don't like unions but it kind of got me wondering about that why they don't like unions. I was listening to the news today and they said that the teamster union had took up more donations for Christmas charity for under privileged children. They said that they expected donations to be down but instead it was higher than their previous drives, is that one of the things you don't like about unions? They fought to get child labor laws enacted is that one of the things that you don't like about unions? Unions have pushed for a lot of things that we enjoy today but that was things that they did yesterday but what have you did for me today seems to be the attitude that people have. UMWA was mentioned and nonunion mines, lets say that you have a close loved one working at a nonunion mine you love them with all your heart, maybe a son a daughter, a brother, a dad. Lets call the mine Crandle Canyon mine and lets say the year is 2007 and there is a emergency news bulletin flashes across the tv screen there has been an accident at Crandel canyon mine, we have several miners trapped. We have news crews on their way there right now, and just then the news flashes to a news reporter on the seen at the mine. The news reporter holds the mic up to a company official and ask what happened and the company official says it's not our fault there was an earth quack there was measurements on the rhictoric scale. Your loved one is in that mine and he is using this time to inform the public that it is not his fault it was an earth quack and finally it is dragged out of him he has several men trapped underground he don't know their condition we'll do every thing in our power to get them out, and did I say it's not our fault it was an earth quack[need to win in the court of public opinion]. Your loved one is trapped under ground and you don't know if they are dead or alive, do you want to get them out or do you want it to be known that the company bears no responsabilities for what happened before it is even investigated. Now lets go on a little farther the awful UMWA has trained crews that are trained in search and rescue methods for mines [highly trained] and they offer to use these crews risking their lives to try to save the life of your loved one and the company spoksmen says I don't want them in my mine they will try to unionize my mine. Now are you still in love with these nonunion companies or would you like to get your loved ones out alive? I'm a little skeptical and I wonder there might be another reason that he don't want the union mine search and rescue teams in there maybe part of it is because he knows that the union rescue team is trained in safety and they could spot any violation of roof, ventialtion control plan and any other disregard for safety of his workers. Now lets go on a little farther the company calls for a press briefing and he again is selling his point in the court of public opinion it is not my fault and while he is in his rigtamorer a lot of heavy trucks starts passing by making a lot of noise and he calls out stop those trucks I've got to get this out and all he does is defend his company on tv and seems like the reporters buy into it. He says that they don't need more machinery on the hill now he needs to get this out first and then they can take the equipment on up to the rescue site. Now it is your loved one, do you want to stop the trucks that might have something on it that can speed up the rescue of your loved one and maybe get them out alove or do you want to stop everything so the company official can sell his side of the story? What is more important the lives of the trapped miners or the propaganda of the company official? They probably have the final outcome on the internet if you want to see how the story ends, its your loved one you might want to have a handkerchief with you and be sitting down when you read the end of the story. The unions don't contribute anymore we don't need them around do we? The union is a collection of small voices that together are loud enough that maybe someone can hear their pain and maybe say wait a minute I work for a living too these may be my neighbor my friend and someday maybe even my rescuer. Go ahead drive them out of existance, how is things going for you now with your favorite crowd?

Well put. I also would point out that maybe if they were union workers they would not have been afraid to complain about any unsafe conditions that could result in a cave in. In non union workplaces if a worker complains about a safety condition the employer can just fire them and go about their buisness.

 

[gemini5362]

You have a loved one just boarded and air plane and you are to wave them off. You and you r loved one are unaware that there is danger ahead one of the planes has turned wrong and both planes are on the same runway and they collide. How many die that day? Any survivors? What caused it? There is one more question you need to know it's the first question that I haven't asked yet you help me ask it. My loved one is...........? Oh my god oh no. Are you there yet? One of the reasons why it happened as was reported on the evening news was that the air traffic controller was doing clerical work after he had gave instructions to the planes and he never saw the plane get on the wrong runway. Wait a minute this can't be right there is enough people in the tower that he didn't have to do clerical work I remember the air traffic controller union struck a few years back to get extra help and and and I remember now they were all fired. All those people gone their fate was signed several years earlier and no one laid it to heart. Unions are no good we must drive them into extinction we don't need them. How is it going with you lately? You reckon you might someday need a voice to stand up for you when all the rest of the crowd stands against you

I believe that you and I are the minority voices here in this thread. I find it interesting that the overwhelming people on this thread are against unions but In one sense a person could look at a farmers coop as a farmers version of a union.

 

[gemini5362]

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. That is the most likely way that the contract the UAW has on the automakers will be restructured without any vote or consent from the union. A federal bankruptcy judge would restructure the contract, including pay and benefits, as they see fit to insure the viability of the company filing. There are other, more obscure and not as well known ways as well, but this option should be crystal clear to everyone.

Absolutely correct but at that point the arguement will not be about concessions will it ?

Also hopefully if they go into bankruptcy then managers will also have to make concessions and not get huge bonuses.

 

[gemini5362]

If the melon heads at the UAW/CAW don't take serious concessions, as well as management in the companies, all the companies have to do is file chapter 11, and the Union contract is dead. The Unions are no longer in a position of power, in fact, they have outlived their usefulness.

I would still buy GM, even if it was built in Mexico, because the profits stay here, unlike the Asians.

Since I am not an expert at bankruptcy laws I am not sure what will happen if they go into bankruptcy. Since people seem to be looking at chapter 11 bankruptcy which I believe is just used to allow the company to restart and not have to sell off assets then someone will still have to make car parts and cars. Actually it will not be as simple as everyone assumes that it will be. First of all yes the contract will be voided but someone will still have to decide how much to pay employees. The bigger issue I see is what happens if for instance GM goes bankrupt and the union employees decide to strike and not work. Who is going to build the cars then. Of course the government could force them to work for a period while things are being worked out. But lets assume they are allowed to go on strike and GM finds other people to build their cars. That sounds like a great solution unless of course the company that builds wiring harnesses, or transmissions or axles or Fill in the blank. If they are union and decide to not cross the picket line then going to be hard to build cars without the parts to build them. Of course those parts are now made in foreign countries and are not going to be withheld because of unions. If the truckers actually decide to honor their union committments and not deliver parts that might be a problem. The answer to the solution is not nearly as simple as just do chapter 11 and throw out the union contract. Then of course there is the publicity nightmare that bankruptcy would bring. It is hard enough for the big three to keep public trust as it is. If they go bankrupt and people get worried about warranty work or getting parts (there is a lot of talk of that already) Recovering from that might be impossible.


Did anyone happen to notice in the news that Toyota declared a loss for 2008 so even the big three are not the only ones to get hurt by this economy.

 

[WilliamBos]

Since I am not an expert at bankruptcy laws I am not sure what will happen if they go into bankruptcy. Since people seem to be looking at chapter 11 bankruptcy which I believe is just used to allow the company to restart and not have to sell off assets then someone will still have to make car parts and cars. Actually it will not be as simple as everyone assumes that it will be. First of all yes the contract will be voided but someone will still have to decide how much to pay employees. The bigger issue I see is what happens if for instance GM goes bankrupt and the union employees decide to strike and not work. Who is going to build the cars then. Of course the government could force them to work for a period while things are being worked out. But lets assume they are allowed to go on strike and GM finds other people to build their cars. That sounds like a great solution unless of course the company that builds wiring harnesses, or transmissions or axles or Fill in the blank. If they are union and decide to not cross the picket line then going to be hard to build cars without the parts to build them. Of course those parts are now made in foreign countries and are not going to be withheld because of unions. If the truckers actually decide to honor their union committments and not deliver parts that might be a problem. The answer to the solution is not nearly as simple as just do chapter 11 and throw out the union contract. Then of course there is the publicity nightmare that bankruptcy would bring. It is hard enough for the big three to keep public trust as it is. If they go bankrupt and people get worried about warranty work or getting parts (there is a lot of talk of that already) Recovering from that might be impossible.


Did anyone happen to notice in the news that Toyota declared a loss for 2008 so even the big three are not the only ones to get hurt by this economy.

If the GM goes chapter 11, then the contract is dead, meaning no agreement. And if I am correct here, GM is then able to fire those who refuse to work. If there is no agreement, then there is no union. The best thing that could ever happen to them would be to come back online as a non union company. I am not talking about all the hard working folks on the line, I am talking about the freeloading Union folks. Time for them to stop riding on the backs of the hard workers who take pride in what they do, and find a job!!

 

[gemini5362]

If the GM goes chapter 11, then the contract is dead, meaning no agreement. And if I am correct here, GM is then able to fire those who refuse to work. If there is no agreement, then there is no union. The best thing that could ever happen to them would be to come back online as a non union company. I am not talking about all the hard working folks on the line, I am talking about the freeloading Union folks. Time for them to stop riding on the backs of the hard workers who take pride in what they do, and find a job!!

Although I realize that you still think it is only the unions who are the cause of GM to have problems and you feel that coming back online as a non union company would be a good thing. I found an interesting article that talks about the consequences. One of the things that they mention in the article is that after a chapter 11 almost the entire upper management gets replaced. So it would be in managements best interest to avoid that.
Here is the article Much ado about GM, Part 2 of 3 | The Economic Populist

Also it is interesting to note that you talk about free loading Union folks I personally am offended at that remark. There is absolutely nothing that says a person cannot be very active in the union and take pride in the hard work and quality job they do. Actually in right to work states the union people find the non union workers the free loaders. They are usually the ones that have the most attendance problems, or complain the most. They dont want to pay union dues but by law they get the same salary, benefits and what is the most untenable is that you have to defend them in grievances. If a non member gets fired I have to represent them in all grievances if it goes to arbitration the funds to pay the arbitrator and the advocates expenses come out of union funds which are gathered from paying members dues.

 

[WilliamBos]

Although I realize that you still think it is only the unions who are the cause of GM to have problems and you feel that coming back online as a non union company would be a good thing. I found an interesting article that talks about the consequences. One of the things that they mention in the article is that after a chapter 11 almost the entire upper management gets replaced. So it would be in managements best interest to avoid that.
Here is the article Much ado about GM, Part 2 of 3 | The Economic Populist

Also it is interesting to note that you talk about free loading Union folks I personally am offended at that remark. There is absolutely nothing that says a person cannot be very active in the union and take pride in the hard work and quality job they do. Actually in right to work states the union people find the non union workers the free loaders. They are usually the ones that have the most attendance problems, or complain the most. They dont want to pay union dues but by law they get the same salary, benefits and what is the most untenable is that you have to defend them in grievances. If a non member gets fired I have to represent them in all grievances if it goes to arbitration the funds to pay the arbitrator and the advocates expenses come out of union funds which are gathered from paying members dues.

My job is unionized, and let me tell you the pro union gang in my job are some of the laziest, biggest bunch of cry babies I have ever seen. The remind me of greedy free agents, always more more more $$ and less work. It is sickening if you ask me. Also, I have friends who work for asian car companies, and they are and NEVER will want anything to do with Unions. The spell NO GOOD!! They have OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULLNESS, time for them to go!!

 

[gemini5362]

My job is unionized, and lehttp:/lett me tell you the pro union gang in my job are some of the laziest, biggest bunch of cry babies I have ever seen. The remind me of greedy free agents, always more more more $$ and less work. It is sickening if you ask me. Also, I have friends who work for asian car companies, and they are and NEVER will want anything to do with Unions. The spell NO GOOD!! They have OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULLNESS, time for them to go!!

First of all let me send you to a link. It is CNN so you can believe it or not but read what they say about salaries at GM versus Toyota
What's on the line for the UAW - Dec. 19, 2008

I am looking forward to seeing the arguements about what this article in CNN say.

Look at the ten most efficiently run plants in the US. Look at labor costs. This is almost too funny.

According to the article the big difference is that the union plants pay health and retirees benefits. The foreign plants dont. Seems to me like the foreign plants are kind of like the old days in the United States. Hire workers use them up then kick them out. When they can not work then throw them out the door and hire new ones. Dont offer health benefits, if your workers get sick just fire them and hire someone else. All of you that think unions area not needed any more just pay attention. the way this report reads they are needed now more than ever because history is repeating itself.

 

[WilliamBos]

First of all let me send you to a link. It is CNN so you can believe it or not but read what they say about salaries at GM versus Toyota
What's on the line for the UAW - Dec. 19, 2008

I am looking forward to seeing the arguements about what this article in CNN say.

Look at the ten most efficiently run plants in the US. Look at labor costs. This is almost too funny.

According to the article the big difference is that the union plants pay health and retirees benefits. The foreign plants dont. Seems to me like the foreign plants are kind of like the old days in the United States. Hire workers use them up then kick them out. When they can not work then throw them out the door and hire new ones. Dont offer health benefits, if your workers get sick just fire them and hire someone else. All of you that think unions area not needed any more just pay attention. the way this report reads they are needed now more than ever because history is repeating itself.

Well, just because it is on CNN does not mean it is true.

 

[gemini5362]

Well, just because it is on CNN does not mean it is true.

yeah i kind of figured you would have that comment