OP
My Pond Project
- Thread starter ETD66SS
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
The pond looks great, and those piers for the bridge are very nice. From the pics, it looks like metal square tubing. Is that right? What are you going to do to protect the metal?
I'm looking forward to the rest of the bridge build. The ends should be real interesting. I've been working on a plan for a smaller version over my overflow, so it will be nice to see what you come up with.
Thanks,
Eddie
I'm looking forward to the rest of the bridge build. The ends should be real interesting. I've been working on a plan for a smaller version over my overflow, so it will be nice to see what you come up with.
Thanks,
Eddie
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
The steel is actually 3" wide x 5" tall I-Beam.
This picture shows that the vertical steel has been fully encased in concrete:
http://usera.imagecave.com/whitedwarf3/Done/Ponds_concrete.jpg
The lower cross beam was welded in place, that was just covered with dirt. The second cross beam was bolted in place and then that bolted connection was encased in concrete.
The second vertical cross member will be under water, so it should no oxidize too fast. I'm sure it will be there for at least 100 years.
The bridge will just basically be a 50 ft long x 6 ft wide dock, with ramps on either end.
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
streamin
Gold Member
I bookmarked your thread last year and just now getting back to it. You have a really nice project here. I wanted to do one very similar with the island in the middle, interesting on all the input but I'm with you on the island. I have some property in Franklinville, NY but not sure if the soil would be the same.I have hills also so I would need to build a burm.I want to go 20 feet.
Some questions: I think I saw the final acreage at 1.5? I want about 2 acres, do you think bigger would be easier to do a steeper slope? Why couldn't you make it steeper the the escavator? How long did it take you?
I don't have the equipment besides my tractor so I thought I would hire the digging out.Did you look into that and what prices would you think could be reasonable? Thanks.
Some questions: I think I saw the final acreage at 1.5? I want about 2 acres, do you think bigger would be easier to do a steeper slope? Why couldn't you make it steeper the the escavator? How long did it take you?
I don't have the equipment besides my tractor so I thought I would hire the digging out.Did you look into that and what prices would you think could be reasonable? Thanks.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Missed it when you posted the link to the pictures.
What do you do with your equipment in the winter? One of the pictures shows a small truck that's covered in snow. Do you just leave them sit until spring?
Did you finish? What about the bridge? I'm really looking forward to see pics of it.
Eddie
germ-X
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2009
- Messages
- 28
looks like its coming along nicely. cant wait to see it finished. good luck man.
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
-Streamin
I work with a guy here who has a pond in Lynden NY, and he has had major problems keeping water in it. Not enough clay in his area. But that does not mean your property is the same...
I wanted to go 20 feet as well, but hit glacial till at ~12 feet. and it slowed my digging process down quite a bit, so only went into that 2-3 ft because it was costing me a fortune in fuel.
Yes, the total water surface area when full will be 1.5 acres. That is both ponds combined. The one with the island is just over 1 acre.
Digging a steep slope with the excavator was not a problem. Spreading the clay on a steep slope with my bulldozer was. The sandy loam is such loose dirt, any steeper an angle and the dozer would spin it's tracks and not climb the bank. I almost lost the dozer in the water one time because of this. That scared me enough to abandoned the 3:1 slope and go to 3.5:1 or 4:1 in some areas.
As far as how long it took me? Well, I have owned the property for 5 years now, and the pond digging took me 3 years. First year all I had was the dozer, that didn't work out due to the soft clay when I got deeper. The next year I bought the excavator, finished digging the small pond, and 1/2 the large one. Summer 2008 I finished digging the large pond, and spreading the clay on the banks of both ponds. There is still a chance the clay lining will not hold water properly as I could not get a sheepsfoot roller on it to pack it in, so I'm crossing my fingers. Due to a combination of only packing it with the dozer tracks, and heavy rain, some of the clay lining sunk into the pond, in 2 areas, so might have to fix that this summer.
As far as cost. Well, I have $80,000 tied up into my Backhoe, Dozer, Excavator & Dump Truck. I'd say in the last 5 years I have spent another $5000-$6000 on maintenance & repair. And the Diesel fuel bill for the property since starting the ponds is $12,000.
However, those prices also include using the equipment to log 10 acres of large trees, and putting in 400 ft of my driveway, amongst many other tasks. I sold about $8000 worth of firewood to help offset fuel costs.
As far as hours spent moving earth, I would have to guess about 9 weeks worth of vacation time digging dumping, piling & pushing dirt. At about 10 hours per day on average. So lets say 600 man hours. Most of the time I had my dad helping, but honestly, I would have to wait for him to get back with the dump truck to continue digging with the excavator, I really needed 2 dump trucks & drivers. If I had hired an experienced crew, I'm sure they could have had it done in 2 weeks, maybe 4 guys. An excavator, dozer and 2 dump trucks. So roughly 200 man hours. Basically 1/3 the time due to their efficiency. All in all, to pay for the pond to get done, it would have cost me roughly $20,000. However, understand I would have had to pay for 10 acres of land to be cleared & logged first. The forest is worthless to loggers, I had a forester come in and look, so getting a logging crew in and making money off the trees was not an option.
I know my bother asked about getting a 1 acre pond excavated, and the cost was $6000 for fuel alone, plus the labor. Excavated ponds on a flat lot are the most costly... And that was like 4 years ago, before fuel prices went crazy.
I did not buy the equipment just for the ponds. And if I had to pay crews to do all the work I have done in the last 5 years... Well, I would have never been able to afford that.
I estimate I have logged 2000 trees. At least 500 stumps that weigh in excess of 10,000 lbs, some of them 20,000 lbs +. I have tons of silver maple trees, and they have huge root balls that won't let the dirt go...
-Eddie
All the equipment stays outside in the weather. Nothing else I can do at this point in time. The plan is to build my carriage house this summer, and then a 40 x 60 barn the following year. Then I will finally have a place to work on this equipment. That "small truck" is a Ford F8000 tandem dump truck.
As far as the bridge, I did not finish. Most likely, I will just span the pillars with 4 steel I-beams, and cover them up with treated wood to make it look mainly just like a dock.
I work with a guy here who has a pond in Lynden NY, and he has had major problems keeping water in it. Not enough clay in his area. But that does not mean your property is the same...
I wanted to go 20 feet as well, but hit glacial till at ~12 feet. and it slowed my digging process down quite a bit, so only went into that 2-3 ft because it was costing me a fortune in fuel.
Yes, the total water surface area when full will be 1.5 acres. That is both ponds combined. The one with the island is just over 1 acre.
Digging a steep slope with the excavator was not a problem. Spreading the clay on a steep slope with my bulldozer was. The sandy loam is such loose dirt, any steeper an angle and the dozer would spin it's tracks and not climb the bank. I almost lost the dozer in the water one time because of this. That scared me enough to abandoned the 3:1 slope and go to 3.5:1 or 4:1 in some areas.
As far as how long it took me? Well, I have owned the property for 5 years now, and the pond digging took me 3 years. First year all I had was the dozer, that didn't work out due to the soft clay when I got deeper. The next year I bought the excavator, finished digging the small pond, and 1/2 the large one. Summer 2008 I finished digging the large pond, and spreading the clay on the banks of both ponds. There is still a chance the clay lining will not hold water properly as I could not get a sheepsfoot roller on it to pack it in, so I'm crossing my fingers. Due to a combination of only packing it with the dozer tracks, and heavy rain, some of the clay lining sunk into the pond, in 2 areas, so might have to fix that this summer.
As far as cost. Well, I have $80,000 tied up into my Backhoe, Dozer, Excavator & Dump Truck. I'd say in the last 5 years I have spent another $5000-$6000 on maintenance & repair. And the Diesel fuel bill for the property since starting the ponds is $12,000.
However, those prices also include using the equipment to log 10 acres of large trees, and putting in 400 ft of my driveway, amongst many other tasks. I sold about $8000 worth of firewood to help offset fuel costs.
As far as hours spent moving earth, I would have to guess about 9 weeks worth of vacation time digging dumping, piling & pushing dirt. At about 10 hours per day on average. So lets say 600 man hours. Most of the time I had my dad helping, but honestly, I would have to wait for him to get back with the dump truck to continue digging with the excavator, I really needed 2 dump trucks & drivers. If I had hired an experienced crew, I'm sure they could have had it done in 2 weeks, maybe 4 guys. An excavator, dozer and 2 dump trucks. So roughly 200 man hours. Basically 1/3 the time due to their efficiency. All in all, to pay for the pond to get done, it would have cost me roughly $20,000. However, understand I would have had to pay for 10 acres of land to be cleared & logged first. The forest is worthless to loggers, I had a forester come in and look, so getting a logging crew in and making money off the trees was not an option.
I know my bother asked about getting a 1 acre pond excavated, and the cost was $6000 for fuel alone, plus the labor. Excavated ponds on a flat lot are the most costly... And that was like 4 years ago, before fuel prices went crazy.
I did not buy the equipment just for the ponds. And if I had to pay crews to do all the work I have done in the last 5 years... Well, I would have never been able to afford that.
I estimate I have logged 2000 trees. At least 500 stumps that weigh in excess of 10,000 lbs, some of them 20,000 lbs +. I have tons of silver maple trees, and they have huge root balls that won't let the dirt go...
-Eddie
All the equipment stays outside in the weather. Nothing else I can do at this point in time. The plan is to build my carriage house this summer, and then a 40 x 60 barn the following year. Then I will finally have a place to work on this equipment. That "small truck" is a Ford F8000 tandem dump truck.
As far as the bridge, I did not finish. Most likely, I will just span the pillars with 4 steel I-beams, and cover them up with treated wood to make it look mainly just like a dock.
Last edited:
streamin
Gold Member
thanks for the great response.It gives me more insite to what I'm up against.Would you mind if I came by this summer to see your ponds?
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Great breakdown of your expenses in building your pond and working your land. It's always shocking to see how much money it costs to do these things yourself!!!! I have a stack of reciepts that I'm curious to add up, but also afraid to because I really don't want to know. LOL I spend just about everything I make on my land and my equipment. I know it's allot of money, but if I had to hire it out, I could never afford any of it without going very deaply into debt.
One thing that keeps me sane is looking forward to the day that I sell most of my equipment and go into a maintenance mode. Then if I need something done, I'll rent a new machine to get it done and be done with it. These multi year long projects are only affordable when buying used equipment, but it does take a physical and emotional drain on you. At least it does with me.
I've also noticed that with one truck and one tractor to load it, that there's not allot of time savings with two people working. I'm loading my 5 yard single axle dump truck with my backhoe. It's a smaller scale they what you are doing, but probably a similar job. I can load the dump truck, get off the bakhoe and go dump the dump truck fairly quickly. When my dad is here, he'll drive the dump truck while I load it, and we do get more dirt moved, but not enough to justify what it would cost to pay somebody to do this. Dad works for free, so it's a no brainer. If I had two dump trucks, then it would make allot of sense to have two drivers to eliminate the down time while the truck is dumping it's load. Of course, that's just another expense that I don't have the money for, but something that I day dream about while waiting for the dump truck to come back for another load. Waiting for dry conditions is a much bigger issue anyway.
I'm looking forward to seeing your bridge. I've been planning one across my spillway for a few years now. It's not a priority, so I can't say for sure when I'll get to it, but it's something that I'm looking forward to building. The railing is where I'm hoping to be creative and make something interesting. At least, that's my plan.
Eddie
One thing that keeps me sane is looking forward to the day that I sell most of my equipment and go into a maintenance mode. Then if I need something done, I'll rent a new machine to get it done and be done with it. These multi year long projects are only affordable when buying used equipment, but it does take a physical and emotional drain on you. At least it does with me.
I've also noticed that with one truck and one tractor to load it, that there's not allot of time savings with two people working. I'm loading my 5 yard single axle dump truck with my backhoe. It's a smaller scale they what you are doing, but probably a similar job. I can load the dump truck, get off the bakhoe and go dump the dump truck fairly quickly. When my dad is here, he'll drive the dump truck while I load it, and we do get more dirt moved, but not enough to justify what it would cost to pay somebody to do this. Dad works for free, so it's a no brainer. If I had two dump trucks, then it would make allot of sense to have two drivers to eliminate the down time while the truck is dumping it's load. Of course, that's just another expense that I don't have the money for, but something that I day dream about while waiting for the dump truck to come back for another load. Waiting for dry conditions is a much bigger issue anyway.
I'm looking forward to seeing your bridge. I've been planning one across my spillway for a few years now. It's not a priority, so I can't say for sure when I'll get to it, but it's something that I'm looking forward to building. The railing is where I'm hoping to be creative and make something interesting. At least, that's my plan.
Eddie
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
Eddie, my Dad works for free too, and he has helped me so much.
He gets all the free firewood he wants...
He gets all the free firewood he wants...
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
Rainy season is here, have about 3.5ft more to go to fill up the ponds: etd66ss 's album - Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Pond looks good, especially where the grass is starting to come in. Once you get it in good and thick, it will be amazing.
What are the red and yellow lines for on your bridge posts?
Are you going to grade or build up the soil where the RV and your equipment is parked? It sort of has that muddy, standing water, bury your truck to the axles look to it.
Eddie
What are the red and yellow lines for on your bridge posts?
Are you going to grade or build up the soil where the RV and your equipment is parked? It sort of has that muddy, standing water, bury your truck to the axles look to it.
Eddie
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
The water level should fill up to somewhere between the yellow & red markers. IF the clay liner works properly...
The low area is where I'm building my house, so that will get more dirt after construction.
The higher gound behind the equipment is actually about 1 ft too high, so that dirt will eventually be pushed across to the low spots.
Yeah, I can't wait to landscape to get rid of all of the low areas.
I'm looking at building a house similar to this one: House plan 302-165. 1156 square feet 2 bedroom 2 bathroom with 0 garage stalls
Although I changed the second floor a bit, made a full 8 ft wall on the main portion of the house, and put a 5 ft knee wall on the wings, as I'm not a fan of sloped ceilings as I'm 6'-1".
Here are the plans I made:
http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Smaller-1st-floor.pdf
http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Smaller-2ND-floor-01.pdf
I dunno, have been drawing up house plans for over a year now, never satisfied.
I sent a set to the town tax assessor to get an estimate on yearly property taxes. Those plans were for a 1900 sq-ft house, the plans above are for a 1450 sq-ft house without a garage, in case I need to downsize due to the outrageous taxes here in New York. I'd build a detached garage later. And then eventually a nice big barn for my equipment, shop crane, etc...
Here are some pictures at my brothers sawmill, turning my maple logs into boards for kitchen cabinets & trim: http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Lumber/
I also have ~200 pine & spruce logs to cut into clapboard siding for my house too. All from trees that fell down at my lot from wind. Since I logged 10 acres, the pines have lost their wind breaking deciduous trees, and fall quite easliy when we get winds above 60 MPH.
The low area is where I'm building my house, so that will get more dirt after construction.
The higher gound behind the equipment is actually about 1 ft too high, so that dirt will eventually be pushed across to the low spots.
Yeah, I can't wait to landscape to get rid of all of the low areas.
I'm looking at building a house similar to this one: House plan 302-165. 1156 square feet 2 bedroom 2 bathroom with 0 garage stalls
Although I changed the second floor a bit, made a full 8 ft wall on the main portion of the house, and put a 5 ft knee wall on the wings, as I'm not a fan of sloped ceilings as I'm 6'-1".
Here are the plans I made:
http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Smaller-1st-floor.pdf
http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Smaller-2ND-floor-01.pdf
I dunno, have been drawing up house plans for over a year now, never satisfied.
I sent a set to the town tax assessor to get an estimate on yearly property taxes. Those plans were for a 1900 sq-ft house, the plans above are for a 1450 sq-ft house without a garage, in case I need to downsize due to the outrageous taxes here in New York. I'd build a detached garage later. And then eventually a nice big barn for my equipment, shop crane, etc...
Here are some pictures at my brothers sawmill, turning my maple logs into boards for kitchen cabinets & trim: http://www.infinity-universe.com/~dev/WhiteDwarf/H/Lumber/
I also have ~200 pine & spruce logs to cut into clapboard siding for my house too. All from trees that fell down at my lot from wind. Since I logged 10 acres, the pines have lost their wind breaking deciduous trees, and fall quite easliy when we get winds above 60 MPH.
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ScottAR
Veteran Member
Great pics and project!
Is that mill a Brand-X or D & L? Just curious...
Is that mill a Brand-X or D & L? Just curious...
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
I believe it is a D & L.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Your house plans are dead on with allot of log home styles. Not sure if you've looked at log home floor plans, but you'll find just about every variation possible of that basic theme. The two story great room in the middle with the other rooms on either side.
It's a solid plan with good resale. I'd also try to avoid those short walls if you can. While it won't affect the value of the place, they are a pain to deal with.
Eddie
It's a solid plan with good resale. I'd also try to avoid those short walls if you can. While it won't affect the value of the place, they are a pain to deal with.
Eddie
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
Here is a picture from April 2008:
.JPG)
Picture from the same spot in April 2009:
.JPG)
Here is a bunch of the latest pictures taken today. Going to do landscaping & seeding of grass on the rest of the bank of the large pond soon.
http://usera.imagecave.com/Whitedwarf/Ponds-4-23-09/
Picture from the same spot in April 2009:
Here is a bunch of the latest pictures taken today. Going to do landscaping & seeding of grass on the rest of the bank of the large pond soon.
http://usera.imagecave.com/Whitedwarf/Ponds-4-23-09/
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
Landscaping around both ponds is finally done. I now turn my attention to grading the rest of the yard.
Whitedwarf 's album - Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com
Whitedwarf 's album - Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com
OP
ETD66SS
Platinum Member
I'm looking for a culvert pipe with a gate vale or some such inside of it.
I need to control water flow in and out of my pond depending on the season.
Anyone know where I can find something?
I need to control water flow in and out of my pond depending on the season.
Anyone know where I can find something?
