Ford & IH finalize diesel divorce

[Builder]

I understand your sentiment completely, I just couldn't stand the disgusting mileage anymore. It took me and a buddy ~2 hours and a few swears to get my DPF off. I don't hide my tuner, and the dealers have been great so far. The deal is that if something goes wrong because of my tuner, it's out of my pocket. If the problem is unrelated to that, they'll warranty it.

If you're happy with your DMax, KEEP IT!!! I would've, but my F350 was my first diesel, and I was under the impression that I was buying one of these new-fangled 'clean, environmentally friendly' diesels.........

-Jer.

Jer,

Be careful, I offended another member because I described all the options on my equipment in my signature like you. I had to remove it or endure further ridicule Just kiddin, have fun.

Seriously, It's no coincidence newer '07 pre-DPF trucks are in great demand. I've had guys walk up to me and ask if they could buy my truck at fuel stops. From what I hear on the GM dpf's, the fuel mileage is higher than the Ford or Dodge, probably because GM had the highest fuel mileage before the DPFs came out.
If I were buying a new or newer truck, I'd probably look for the cleanest '07 pre-DPF I could find just for the fuel & reliability savings.

 

[Ryan03]

I understand your sentiment completely, I just couldn't stand the disgusting mileage anymore. It took me and a buddy ~2 hours and a few swears to get my DPF off. I don't hide my tuner, and the dealers have been great so far. The deal is that if something goes wrong because of my tuner, it's out of my pocket. If the problem is unrelated to that, they'll warranty it.

If you're happy with your DMax, KEEP IT!!! I would've, but my F350 was my first diesel, and I was under the impression that I was buying one of these new-fangled 'clean, environmentally friendly' diesels.........

-Jer.

I can totaly understand where you are coming from. I was just stating why I am holding off on purchasing a new diesel pickup of any make. I am sure once the DPF is removed, I would love the new diesels, but for that kind of coin, I don't want to turn a wrench on it for at least 50k. Eventualy, the salt will eat my Dmax apart, regardless of how much I wash it, and repaint the body and chassis. When that happens, hopefuly they will have a better handle on emissions. I am hoping to get another 5 to 10 years out of it.

 

[Ryan03]

Jer,

Be careful, I offended another member because I described all the options on my equipment in my signature like you. I had to remove it or endure further ridicule Just kiddin, have fun

Don't worry about me, everyone always tells me I don't have feelings

 

[Builder]

I can totaly understand where you are coming from. I was just stating why I am holding off on purchasing a new diesel pickup of any make. I am sure once the DPF is removed, I would love the new diesels, but for that kind of coin, I don't want to turn a wrench on it for at least 50k. Eventualy, the salt will eat my Dmax apart, regardless of how much I wash it, and repaint the body and chassis. When that happens, hopefuly they will have a better handle on emissions. I am hoping to get another 5 to 10 years out of it.

Ryan,

I'm in the same boat as you. I think in the next 5 years they'll have the DPF & urea injection smoothed out. However, it's going to take some ingenuity to get their fuel economy higher.

I still say put a smaller diesel & generator under the hood and 4 electric motors one for each wheel.

 

[Ryan03]

I am all for clean air, but this is a classic case of the Gov. trying to force technology to evolve faster than it realisticly can with ridiculous mandates and deadlines made by people who don't even know what an air filter looks like. And who suffers, the working folk.

 

[jgrreed]

I can totaly understand where you are coming from. I was just stating why I am holding off on purchasing a new diesel pickup of any make. I am sure once the DPF is removed, I would love the new diesels, but for that kind of coin, I don't want to turn a wrench on it for at least 50k. Eventualy, the salt will eat my Dmax apart, regardless of how much I wash it, and repaint the body and chassis. When that happens, hopefuly they will have a better handle on emissions. I am hoping to get another 5 to 10 years out of it.

I can totally see what you mean. I HATED by F350 for the first year I had it because I thought I was finally getting that "great power, good mileage" truck I'd always wanted. I too wanted full warranty and hassle free, but.....

Mercedes, BMW, and VW were all able to produce diesel engines that meet EPA standards and get good to excellent mileage (Mercedes ML320CDI and BMW X5d are around 30MPG, and the new Jetta TDI is 50+MPG).

I think there's a big difference between a M/B diesel used in a car than a truck because of the torque, weight & aerodynamic issues with a truck. M/B powered Freightliner medium duties don't get any better fuel economy than their IH & Cummins powered counterparts.

I guess what I was thinking was that they were able to produce a 'clean' diesel that got the same (or better in the Jetta TDI's case) mileage than the 'unclean' predecessors. As I'm sure you know the ML320CDI and the X5d are SUV's, so IMO for them to be getting around 30mpg is an accomplishment.

Until they do get a handle on it, start collecting all the bird pee you can find, and let's all petition Toyota to look again at producing us some diesels that won't rust out and rattle like h*** within 10000 miles!!!

-Jer.

 

[Builder]

let's all petition Toyota to look again at producing us some diesels that won't rust out and rattle like h*** within 10000 miles!!!

-Jer.

Don't forget Toyota went through a big frame rust issue. They had to buy back Tacos with premature frame rust.

I have no problems with the build quality of the Big 3. I don't think Toyota can really do much better.

 

[Ryan03]

Don't forget Toyota went through a big frame rust issue. They had to buy back Tacos with premature frame rust.

I have no problems with the build quality of the Big 3. I don't think Toyota can really do much better.

I think the quality of the big 3s vehicles is on par with that of both Toyota, and Honda. Naturaly, some models are better than others across the board with respect to each manafacturer. That being said, IMO, the big 3 have a long way to go when it comes to both customer service, and standing behind their product, even beyond the warranty period. It is true that some dealers go above and beyond to make the customers happy, But the attitude toward the little guy that the big 3 seem to have had for many years is that since you don't buy 250 units per year, your satifaction is not important to us. h*!! would freeze over before GM ever bought back a 10 year old S-10 with a rotten frame, or for that matter Ford with a Ranger, or Dodge with a Dakota. Bottom line is that many people feel more comfortable investing 25k + in a foreign car because they feel the manafacturer will stand behind it better. That reputation will successfuly recruit more buyers than any TV commercial with a Diesel truck dragging a bulldiozer down the street, Or a pretty woman talking about all the great features of a certain brand [Mercury]. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Builder]

I think the quality of the big 3s vehicles is on par with that of both Toyota, and Honda. Naturaly, some models are better than others across the board with respect to each manafacturer. That being said, IMO, the big 3 have a long way to go when it comes to both customer service, and standing behind their product, even beyond the warranty period. It is true that some dealers go above and beyond to make the customers happy, But the attitude toward the little guy that the big 3 seem to have had for many years is that since you don't buy 250 units per year, your satifaction is not important to us. h*!! would freeze over before GM ever bought back a 10 year old S-10 with a rotten frame, or for that matter Ford with a Ranger, or Dodge with a Dakota. Bottom line is that many people feel more comfortable investing 25k + in a foreign car because they feel the manafacturer will stand behind it better. That reputation will successfuly recruit more buyers than any TV commercial with a Diesel truck dragging a bulldiozer down the street, Or a pretty woman talking about all the great features of a certain brand [Mercury]. Just my 2 cents.

Ryan,

In my 25 yrs of truck buying I found it's all in the dealer you chose, not really the manufacturer. In today's world, 95% of all customers go to the dealer with the lowest price, not the one with the best service. A reputable service dept adds a little to the cost of a new vehicle.

 

[John Deere 3520]

I am all for clean air, but this is a classic case of the Gov. trying to force technology to evolve faster than it realisticly can with ridiculous mandates and deadlines made by people who don't even know what an air filter looks like. And who suffers, the working folk.

You said a mouth full there.. The EPA dont care becuase they dont drive a diesel or work in fields most of us do.. I cant figure out how much its saving on the air because it all gets traped in the filter right and then gets burned off in the air so its still going to the same place.. they should just take that DPF out of there and put another cat on there and forget about it.

 

[WilliamBos]

You said a mouth full there.. The EPA dont care becuase they dont drive a diesel or work in fields most of us do.. I cant figure out how much its saving on the air because it all gets traped in the filter right and then gets burned off in the air so its still going to the same place.. they should just take that DPF out of there and put another cat on there and forget about it.

A DPF and a Cat do 2 entirely different jobs. So that won't work.

 

[Gator6x4]

Removal of the DPF is probably rather simple. After the DPF has been removed what has been accomplished? Who reprograms the computer? How is the metering pump disabled to prevent the introduction of fuel into the exhaust system?

The informatiuon below was taken from an article explaining how DPF works.

Regeneration is the process of removing the accumulated soot from the filter. This is done either passively (by adding a catalyst to the filter) or actively. On-board active filter management can use a variety of strategies:

Engine management to increase exhaust temperature
Use of a fuel borne catalyst to reduce soot burn-out temperature
A fuel burner to increase the exhaust temperature
A catalytic oxidizer to increase the exhaust temperature, with after injection (HC-Doser)
Resistive heating coils to increase the exhaust temperature
Microwave energy to increase the particulate temperature
All on-board active systems use extra fuel, whether through burning to heat the DPF, or providing extra power to the DPF's electrical system, although the use of a fuel borne catalyst reduces the energy required very significantly. Typically a computer monitors one or more sensors that measure back pressure and/or temperature, and based on pre-programmed set points the computer makes decisions on when to activate the regeneration cycle. The additional fuel can be supplied by a metering pump. Running the cycle too often while keeping the back pressure in the exhaust system low will use extra fuel. The reverse runs risk of engine damage and/or uncontrolled regeneration and possible DPF failure. Quality regeneration software is a necessity for longevity of the active DPF system.

 

[John Deere 3520]

A DPF and a Cat do 2 entirely different jobs. So that won't work.

I know that I think they should just add another cat to them and forget about the DPF it cost more then its worth.

 

[John Deere 3520]

Removal of the DPF is probably rather simple. After the DPF has been removed what has been accomplished? Who reprograms the computer? How is the metering pump disabled to prevent the introduction of fuel into the exhaust system?

The informatiuon below was taken from an article explaining how DPF works.

Regeneration is the process of removing the accumulated soot from the filter. This is done either passively (by adding a catalyst to the filter) or actively. On-board active filter management can use a variety of strategies:

Engine management to increase exhaust temperature
Use of a fuel borne catalyst to reduce soot burn-out temperature
A fuel burner to increase the exhaust temperature
A catalytic oxidizer to increase the exhaust temperature, with after injection (HC-Doser)
Resistive heating coils to increase the exhaust temperature
Microwave energy to increase the particulate temperature
All on-board active systems use extra fuel, whether through burning to heat the DPF, or providing extra power to the DPF's electrical system, although the use of a fuel borne catalyst reduces the energy required very significantly. Typically a computer monitors one or more sensors that measure back pressure and/or temperature, and based on pre-programmed set points the computer makes decisions on when to activate the regeneration cycle. The additional fuel can be supplied by a metering pump. Running the cycle too often while keeping the back pressure in the exhaust system low will use extra fuel. The reverse runs risk of engine damage and/or uncontrolled regeneration and possible DPF failure. Quality regeneration software is a necessity for longevity of the active DPF system.

Thats what the programers are for...

 

[Builder]

I know that I think they should just add another cat to them and forget about the DPF it cost more then its worth.

I'm with ya man, but just arbitrarily saying "add another cat" may not come close to the PPB level the EPA has mandated or else the auto companies would do just that.

 

[WilliamBos]

I'm with ya man, but just arbitrarily saying "add another cat" may not come close to the PPB level the EPA has mandated or else the auto companies would do just that.

I agree. Adding something that does not do the job is a waste of money. It does not solve the problem.

 

[Renze]

I agree! The best mileage I could get with my "emmissions friendly" Cat Acert is 5.3 mpg in my dump truck. A long way off from the 7 to 8 with the old mechanical motors.

My old boss has a '78 Volvo F89, beatifully restored. He used it to haul trailer frames to the galvanising company. His cousin had a brand new Scania Euro 4 , but the old Volvo used just half the fuel...

 

[jgrreed]

Removal of the DPF is probably rather simple. After the DPF has been removed what has been accomplished? Who reprograms the computer? How is the metering pump disabled to prevent the introduction of fuel into the exhaust system?

Taking it off was easy, 2hrs, and I'm no wizard.....

These guys, and they do it VERY WELL!!! For a small fee of course (~1100$).

Spartan Diesel Technologies - Technology Beyond Performance!

Almost doubled my mileage, and added ~ 250hp.


-Jer.

 

[Builder]

Removal of the DPF is probably rather simple. After the DPF has been removed what has been accomplished? Who reprograms the computer? How is the metering pump disabled to prevent the introduction of fuel into the exhaust system?

Taking it off was easy, 2hrs, and I'm no wizard.....

These guys, and they do it VERY WELL!!! For a small fee of course (~1100$).

Spartan Diesel Technologies - Technology Beyond Performance!

Almost doubled my mileage, and added ~ 250hp.


-Jer.

250 HP?

I'd like to see some proof of that from them before I'd buy one.

 

[WilliamBos]

Removal of the DPF is probably rather simple. After the DPF has been removed what has been accomplished? Who reprograms the computer? How is the metering pump disabled to prevent the introduction of fuel into the exhaust system?

250 HP?

I'd like to see some proof of that from them before I'd buy one.

They do work, more fuel, but I would NEVER buy one. All the things you break will NOT be covered by warranty. GM now has the technology that once hooked up to their scanners that will show a tamper/programmer code.

NOT worth it.