Septic question - pumping to drain field

[RobA]

Short comment. I am a liscenced sewage system installer in Illinois. We have the clay soil issue. We have went to an aeration system. I have one in my home. It is very compact. Requires no leach field. The discharge is chlorinated and is basically clear water. Do you have an option like this?

Not sure if they are OK in my area. But schism's comments make me leary of them.

 

[CCWKen]

The best thing to do is check with YOUR county health department. The rules and regulations vary by county as well as State. I would hate to see you have to rip it out and pay a $20,000 fine PER DAY for being wrong.

 

[2manyrocks]

When I first read this post, my reaction is that it sounds very involved, and anytime something gets this involved, things go wrong. Plus it's usually very expensive.

 

[CurlyDave]

2manyrocks has it right. Complicated sounds bad to me too. Also, the thought of a "maintenance intensive" poop pump makes my blood run cold. I know exactly who is going to be the maintenance worker for that little gem.

 

[Kays Supply]

I am not starting a fight. In Illinois there is no inspection. The cost of running the aerator is about $30 a month. The chlorine is in tablets and I will admit I have not kept track of that cost. The install cost me about $3000 since I could do it myself. This included 200 ft of sock pipe, not required it just helps on the discharge. I have replaced one air pump in 8 years for about $450, I upgraded to a silent model. All said, you just have to do what it takes ,complicated or not, if you are going to live in the country. The option is a bucket under the bed.

 

[Egon]

Going off track a bit but still about disposal.

It woulds almost seem that a new type of disposal system could be devised for difficult areas. One in which toilet effluent is kept separate and passed through a composting system or electric disposal system and another that would handle the more benign general or gray water which should be easier to treat??

Someone must have ideas on how to do this.

In general I am of the opinion that we have complicated all our sewage systems by the addition of large quantities of expensive potable water which in the future may not be as readily available as they are now.

My apologies for digressing from the OP's original thread.

 

[Dmace]

The best thing to do is check with YOUR county health department. The rules and regulations vary by county as well as State. I would hate to see you have to rip it out and pay a $20,000 fine PER DAY for being wrong.

It's getting designed by a LICENSED DESIGNER, there is no need to go talk to 40 different people and get 40 different answers. The designer knows your topography, soil types, drainage calculations, and layout. If they know what they are doing this should not be a problem. I have done a few hotels that make this project a walk in the park.

It sounds as if you are only going up a gentle sloping hill and in that case you may get away with a single pump in a pump tank right after the septic tank. Stay away from aeration systems, I have designed 2 in the past 6 years and both have been removed and replaced by a much cheaper and much more reliable geo-system like and Enviro-Septic or Eljen In-Drains. I am sure there is something available in your area like these systems.

Also, pump systems are not "maintenance intensive", I have clients that have systems over 10 years old and have never even looked at the system let alone had to maintain it at all. These pumps are built on the same motor design as your well pump and everyone knows how long those last. They use very little electricity and most have built in alarms just in case the pump fails to turn on.

I don't know about your area but in NH you have to have what they call "differential venting" for all pump systems. The basics to this system is that there is a PVC pipe coming off the distribution box that goes straight up in to the air about 11ft with a 180 elbow and then on the end of the system there is another pipe about 1-2ft straight up with another elbow. The difference in air pressure between the two allows for easy, no vaccuum flow which significantly lengthens the leach bed and pump life.

 

[IslandTractor]

Yet another example of LBrowns thoughts on Septic Systems.

We already know we don't want to live downstream of LBrown.

Or upstream either!

 

[LBrown59]

Short comment. I am a liscenced sewage system installer in Illinois. We have the clay soil issue. We have went to an aeration system. I have one in my home. It is very compact. Requires no leach field. The discharge is chlorinated and is basically clear water. Do you have an option like this?

We used to have till the county got the bright idea to require leach fields/bed on them which reintroduced the problem they solved .
Nothing short of brilliant.

 

[LBrown59]

And it is systems like that, that are causing the kinds of septic regulation changes that are on our horizon here in the Puget sound area....

Why Is that.How are they doing it?

We already know we don't want to live downstream of LBrown.

The sad thing is you are no better off being down stream
of those other systems that merily drive up the bulding and or bying cost of the home owner.

 

[Dmace]

The sad thing is you are no better off being down stream of those other systems that merily drive up the bulding and or bying cost of the home owner.

I would love to know what magical system you have in place because you mention it every time there is a septic thread and even though I ask you every time, you never say what you are using. The systems used today are safer, cleaner, smaller, just as reliable, and cheaper. These aren't stone and pipe systems that just redistribute, these systms use natural bacteria to break down the effluent and purify it. After leaving an Enviro or Eljen leaching system, discharged effluent needs just 12" of typical ground soil to become safe enough to drink. I would like to see you drink water from your system just 12" below it...

 

[ByronBob]

Move the house closer to the septic system. Preferrably uphill of it.

 

[RobA]

Move the house closer to the septic system. Preferrably uphill of it.

See my post from the 14th. That's what I don't want to do.

 

[dfkrug]

Also, pump systems are not "maintenance intensive", I have clients that have systems over 10 years old and have never even looked at the system let alone had to maintain it at all. These pumps are built on the same motor design as your well pump and everyone knows how long those last. They use very little electricity and most have built in alarms just in case the pump fails to turn on.

That is correct, for the most part. My system has been in use for 7 yr now,
and it is the most intensive pump-up system I am aware of.

So far, the 3 problems I have had to fix are all related to the design and
construction of the "turn-key" pump system ($1200). I had a failure of the 2"
high-pressure flex line between the pump and outflow pipe inside the
holding tank. The manufacturer should have used higher pressure line. :-(
The original design had no 2" check valve....BIG mistake. The brass flapper
valve I installed failed due to corrosion. The new PVC flapper valve is
working fine now. If Orenco has properly built this system, I would have had
NO problems.

 

[2manyrocks]

I've been thinking about Egon's post #26. We've had several summers here where we have had to water our garden to keep it going. Each time I have wished I had plumbed our house to use the drain water from the showers for this. I remember reading somewhere that grey water from the kitchen sink is a no-no, but shower water is okay. Would seem to be a better reuse of the water than dumping it into the septic system.

 

[Dmace]

I've been thinking about Egon's post #26. We've had several summers here where we have had to water our garden to keep it going. Each time I have wished I had plumbed our house to use the drain water from the showers for this. I remember reading somewhere that grey water from the kitchen sink is a no-no, but shower water is okay. Would seem to be a better reuse of the water than dumping it into the septic system.

Unless you take showers without using any soap, shampoo, shaving cream, body wash, etc... you should not be reusing that water. Grey water is grey water and should not be reused without proper chemical filtration.

You want to save water and reuse it for a garden, then put a few buckets under the downspouts for your gutters and setup a few catch buckets around the yard.

Grey water should never be reused like that.

 

[schmism]

Grey water is grey water and should not be reused without proper chemical filtration.

Grey water should never be reused like that.

Your statement above reads as a FACT but is based on what?

 

[Dmace]

Your statement above reads as a FACT but is based on what?

I won't say it is fact because there are not enough studies on it but reusing grey water is actually illegal in some areas and for good reasons, plus it is illegal everywhere to store grey water for more than 24 hours. There are plenty of studies on it that mostly say it's only ok if it is for landscaping only and not used anywhere near edible plants. Even if it is used for irrigation it needs to be spread through an underground weep system and not just sprayed out of a hose. Then there is the problem with most soaps and detergents that will kill many types of landscaping. There is no guarantee as to what exactly is in that water.

Here are a few studies but if you search around there are plenty more:
ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEER 2008: GREY WATER REUSE : SUSTAINABLE WATER RESOURCE
Graywater Reuse and Rainwater Harvesting

I guess I can't say it should never be used but I do believe it is a dirty practice that could be harmful and is unnecessary in most situations other than droughts. The grey water that goes into your septic is going to end up back in your well whether it goes through your septic or is sprayed on your garden. The difference is it's not properly sanitized when you re-use it.

 

[CurlyDave]

Somehow this seems pretty restrictive to me.

On my property there are more deer, rabbits, possums, birds, raccoons than people. There are also bear, cougar, and coyote, but I hope in fewer numbers than people, although I don't know about the bear.

Just last year the county set up a wildlife porta-potty just two places over from mine, but they haven't sent the agent out to teach the wildlife how to use it yet.

Seriously, I have no delusions that these guys all hold it until they get somewhere else. Why is it that a whole lot of animal poop is safe, and a little bit of grey water from humans washing themselves is bad? When I take the trailer out to go camping we just dump the dishwater in the woods and no one has come down with the plague from that.

When we go deer hunting there are 20 of us and probably 80 other hunters in the same 10 square miles, plus hundreds of deer, all pooping in the woods. And we throw our grey water in those same woods. No one has ever gotten a sewage-related illness.

I understand the life expectancy benefits of the public health and sanitation improvements mankind has made, but one family's grey water on 20 acres is not a public health menace.

 

[Egon]

Why is it that a whole lot of animal poop is safe, and a little bit of grey water from humans washing themselves is bad?

Note: speculation only

It may be because of the type of bacteria involved and this bacteria getting on vegetables that are not washed properly before consumption?

Some types of animals may also harbor very similar bacteria [Thinking Pigs] but again this is speculation?

From several years ago I seem to recall some lettuce that was contaminated by ?? that did cause some concern when it hit the market?