Stump removal advice

[bcarwell]

I have about 30 - 40 tree stumps averaging about 8-18 inches in diameter, about 70% cedar (juniper) and 30% live oak (Central Texas). I've read all the posts about burning stumps, using salt, etc., etc. and for various reasons it seems to me my only options are renting a stump grinder or bulldozer to push them over and clean up with a chain saw on the roots as necessary and pulling with my tractor (unfortunately a small 25hp Kabota).

Note I don't need to get rid of the stumps, I just need to get them out of the ground or below grade so I can improve pasture and plow.

Questions are: which would be better to use, a stump grinder or bulldozer ? And if a bulldozer, what size would be needed to push over stumps like this or get them uprooted enough that I could get at the roots with a chain saw ? I can leave the stump 4 or 5 feet tall when I cut the trees so I can get leverage with the dozer pushing at the top if that will help.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[radioman]

since you said you want to plow, a dozer is the best way to go. A good sized dozer can pop all those stumps without the need for the chainsaw. Using the stump grinder will only hang up the plow when passing by the stump, Not a good thing.

 

[AKfish]

A dozer along the likes of say.. a JD 450 would do the job. However, you're likely gonna make a mess of your topsoil and the root wads will be holdin' a lot of it.

Thirty or 40 stumps and the largest is only 18". I'd get a small excavator with thumb.

For 8 hours (day rate) on the Hobbs meter many rental places will drop off the machine on Friday afternoon (just before closing) and will pick the machine up on Monday morning. A 10K excavator will pop out those stumps in no time and you can clean the root wads of topsoil easier by picking 'em up and dropping them on the ground a few times.

And the hoe can scrape thru the top 8"-12" of topsoil to drag up the bigger remaining roots.

Two or 3 hours on the controls and you'll be a pro!

AKfish

 

[Marlowe]

I've never tried a dozer but I'd love to one day. I did have a similar project a couple of years ago and borrowed a full size back hoe for a weekend. At first it looked like me and the tractor both had palsy. By the end of the day we had thirty stumps out of the ground and I'd moved a bit of dirt around. I let the stumps sit in a stack over the summer and burned them that fall. They burned to nothing but ash after drying completely, and the dirt that was stuck to the roots didn't present a problem at all. Folks told me plenty of nightmare stories like the backhoe wouldn't do the job and the stumps wouldn't burn, but in the end it was actually a blast. Don't tell the wife. She still thinks I worked my butt off. I sure wish I could think of a good reason to own one of those big back hoes.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

I have about 30 - 40 tree stumps averaging about 8-18 inches in diameter,
Questions are: which would be better to use, a stump grinder or bulldozer ? And if a bulldozer, what size would be needed to push over stumps like this or get them uprooted enough that I could get at the roots with a chain saw ? I can leave the stump 4 or 5 feet tall when I cut the trees so I can get leverage with the dozer pushing at the top if that will help.

Thanks for any advice.

I had 70 red and white oak stumps pushed up with the dozer in my avatar. Most were well over the 18 inches you have. I left the stumps about two feet tall and he started early one morning pushing them up and was finished before lunch. Had them push in a pile and the ground smoothed back like they had never been stumps there.

I can post pics of the stumps tomorrow if you want to see them(on dial-up tonight); or you can see them in my thread Land Clearing to House Building in the projects section...several pages back.

David

 

[wushaw]

My vote is for the excavator.

 

[bcarwell]

Many thanks to all for taking the time to reply. Very helpful and much appreciated.
What is a "10K" excavator ?
And if a bulldozer is used, is there any particular technique to pull stumps or is it pretty obvious once you start playing ? Do you drive at the stump catching it at top for most leverage all the way around the stump from different directions to loosen it ? Do you use the blade and try to dig up from below ground, hook roots and lift, etc. or is it pretty straightforward, e.g. "charge" ?

Bob

 

[AKfish]

What is a "10K" excavator ?
And if a bulldozer is used, is there any particular technique to pull stumps or is it pretty obvious once you start playing ? Do you drive at the stump catching it at top for most leverage all the way around the stump from different directions to loosen it ? Do you use the blade and try to dig up from below ground, hook roots and lift, etc. or is it pretty straightforward, e.g. "charge" ?

Bob

10,000 lbs. If you've got a 3/4 ton PU and a 14,000 lb trailer you can pick it up and haul it home yourself.

Depends upon the size/type of the stump and how big a dozer you've got. If it's a big hardwood and a smaller dozer; hitting the top of the stump and trying to pop it out of the ground will just make the tracks spin - or stall out.

The smaller stumps you can roll up with the blade starting 3-4 feet from the stump. Larger stumps you can start at the edges and clip the roots before rolling up the stump.

I'm no expert "'skinner" by any stretch - only played on a couple small crawlers for a few days. The hardest thing was to maintain any kind of level plane to the blade and therefore the amount of dirt you'd be "peeling" up with each pass. My work looked like "rollin' hills"... Up and down and uneven.

Give me the excavator; anyday.

Best of luck.

AKfish

 

[sixdogs]

With "plow" being the operative word, a bulldozer works the best if stumps tall enough to get leverage. A backhoe could work too. Had you said "plow around" I'd vote for the grinder. Not sure your intent but I had a bunch of stumps dozed years ago and pushed together. It was a mess because I had to untangle it and push dirt around later. Took a long time.

Later, I had more just popped out and left and it worked better. The dirt fell off easier and they cleaned more as I dragged to a fencerow.
If you use your tractor and a chain to pull them, take a moment to learn how easy it is to rotate (roll) the tractor upside down as the back wheels gain traction but the object being pulled doesn't move. Happens frequently.

Later, when you do plow there will be lots of roots to catch things so hang on.

 

[Ken45101]

If it's a big hardwood and a smaller dozer; hitting the top of the stump and trying to pop it out of the ground will just make the tracks spin - or stall out.

It depends on the tree species. Some hardwoods have a BIG taproot (almost the size of the trunk) going straight down. Other hardwoods do not have taproots and only have shallow, weak root systems.

Ken

 

[wedge40]

Many thanks to all for taking the time to reply. Very helpful and much appreciated.
What is a "10K" excavator ?
And if a bulldozer is used, is there any particular technique to pull stumps or is it pretty obvious once you start playing ? Do you drive at the stump catching it at top for most leverage all the way around the stump from different directions to loosen it ? Do you use the blade and try to dig up from below ground, hook roots and lift, etc. or is it pretty straightforward, e.g. "charge" ?

Bob

I still have read any difference between bulldozer and excavator? Anybody have any ball park figures for renting one over the weekend?. $500, $1000, $5000?

Wedge

 

[Ken45101]

I still have read any difference between bulldozer and excavator? Anybody have any ball park figures for renting one over the weekend?. $500, $1000, $5000?

Wedge

Mini excavators in the 8-12K range rent for $200-250/day here, $800/week. Currently I'm renting a Kubota KX-121 with the thought of buying one.

I don't know about dozers, but I'd guess they'd be somewhat higher.

Remember, with either one, you will have a learning curve and won't be nearly as effective as an experienced operator.

Seriously, if you are considering the bulldozer approach, you might look for a contractor to do it for you. Many are looking for work these days and can probably do it cheaper (with their experience) than you can rent a dozer.

Ken

 

[wedge40]

Mini excavators in the 8-12K range rent for $200-250/day here, $800/week. Currently I'm renting a Kubota KX-121 with the thought of buying one.

I don't know about dozers, but I'd guess they'd be somewhat higher.

Remember, with either one, you will have a learning curve and won't be nearly as effective as an experienced operator.

Seriously, if you are considering the bulldozer approach, you might look for a contractor to do it for you. Many are looking for work these days and can probably do it cheaper (with their experience) than you can rent a dozer.

Ken

So excavator is a backhoe?

Wedge

 

[dking]

So excavator is a backhoe?

Wedge

well, yes, they do the same thing but an excavator can come in some huge sizes. I'd say either would get your job done. Oak stumps can be welded into the ground, I had some 20-30 inch stumps that nothing in the world would push over, I dug them out with a backhoe. Cedars have less roots.

 

[ZetorShaun]

I paid 1200 for a week with the bulldozer, I think and excavator would have been better. That was delivered and picked up.

Go to the rental company, check out what type they have and which one you feel most comfortable with. Lock it in, the rental company I dealt with rented to large commercial construction companies too, they could have come by and rented one at anytime so I put a small deposit down to lock it in. They gave me lessons in their yard.

I also needed an endorsement from my homeowners insurance so check on that.

Also, if you do not have a large diesel fuel tank stockpile some, you will use a lot of diesel fuel.

In the end, the local earth moving company could have done better in one day with an excavator for the same price. I enjoyed the bulldozer but I think it would have been better to just hire the professionals and I could have led them to the areas, let them knock it out, and enjoyed the show.

Sometimes it is better to let the pros do it, depending on the amount of time you have and how much you want to muck about on your own. I will hire a pro for the next mission, I will not rent. If I plan on working the stumps, clearing or leveling seriously then I will spend the $10K and try and get a old reliable dozer for good.

Remember safety, you have to be careful of your 360 degrees, in my case watch for rollover, and just plain old situational awareness.

 

[sixdogs]

Depending on your desire for seat time you could also purchase a small 3 PT backhoe yourself. You could have fun, get lots of seat time and still have a backhoe when done. I have done this type of thing over the years and now have a stable of basically "free" equipment.
As mentioned, some stumps come out hard but yours don't sound too big.

Just another thought to toss in.

 

[ETD66SS]

In the last 4 years I have removed over 1000 stumps at my lot.

I own a Ford 575D backhoe, a CAT D6C Dozer (15 ton), and a CAT 225 (25 ton) excavator.

I used all of them to pull stumps, however, the soil type, tree species and stump size has a lot to do with which machine to use.

Any evergreen tree in sandy soil, no matter how big in diameter, is really easy for a dozer to just pull up to and lever it out of the ground with the blade raised.

Yet, the same dozer with a 12" diameter Maple tree in soil with more clay, will not come out as easy, and you beat the **** out of the machine. It's better to use a backhoe, or an excavator...

An excavator is definitely easier to maneuver around the stump that a backhoe is. I'd recommend an excavator no smaller than say A cat 305.

Again, depending on the soil & tree species, the dirt ball that accompanies the stump is another issue. A cat 305 may be able to dig around the stump and shimmy it out of the hole with a ramp, but unlikely to just be able to pick it up with the bucket & thumb, and drop it, if it's a sizeable stump with a large root ball, and heavy clay-type soil.

I had some 24" - 28" diameter silver maple stumps which were about 8 ft in total height with a root ball that was 8-10 ft in diameter, some of those weigh in excess of 20,000 lbs. My CAT 225 with manual thumb could not pick them up, as that machine can only lift 16,000 lbs close in.

You may need to ask at a rental place in your area, tell them soil type & tree species type, and see what they recommend.

 

[Ken45101]

So excavator is a backhoe?

Wedge

They both have "hoes". Normally I think an "excavator" refers to a machine that works primarily with the hoe and is on tracks (sometimes called a "trackhoe"). A backhoe usually is an attachment on a rubber tired tractor (or even a bulldozer) that just does digging. Most backhoes have loader buckets on the front.

Depending on your desire for seat time you could also purchase a small 3 PT backhoe yourself. You could have fun, get lots of seat time and still have a backhoe when done. I have done this type of thing over the years and now have a stable of basically "free" equipment.
As mentioned, some stumps come out hard but yours don't sound too big.

Just another thought to toss in.

Of course it depends on your definition of "small" 3 pt backhoe, but I have a Kubota B21 TLB (tractor-loader-backhoe) and even 6" stumps require a lot of effort to dig out (clay, rocks and hardwoods). It would take a long time to dig out a big stump. But I'm sure that an experienced operator could do better than me

Ken

 

[kthompson]

So excavator is a backhoe?

Wedge

Not exactly the same thing. The excavator has 360 degree rotation, no front bucket, small ones often have a front blade for filling back in dug trenches or such. Normally on tracks.

 

[Ken45101]

I own a Ford 575D backhoe, a CAT D6C Dozer (15 ton), and a CAT 225 (25 ton) excavator.

Wow, you have all the toys. Oops, I meant "tools"

Thanks for your experienced comparison on the different situations.

It's hard to imagine the pioneers clearing the monster trees that covered this part of the country. In some cases, I believe they used blackpowder. Have you considered dynamite?

Ken