Help specifying Hydraulic Top Link

[jgrreed]

My CCM TL arrived yesterday, and it took me all of 10 minutes to get it up and running (and I'm in no way a gifted mechanic...). It's very solid, the connections were dead easy to connect, and it was working with 30 seconds of being on my tractor.

So far all I have is a ballast box that rocks back and forth on a quick hitch, but that works pretty well. I have a blade, landscape rake, and a disc that I'm planning on using it with.

It did take a while to get to me, but that's because I'm north of the 49th, and about 3 hours west of the nearest major city (Edmonton). It came all the way from Tennessee. I think Mark had it out and on the road within a week of me ordering it.

Big thanks to Mark at CCM for getting it to me, and for the quality of it.

For the money (~250CDN$ hoses and fittings included) it was definitely worth it for me.

-J.

 

[JB4310]

Sounds great, I will order one eventually.
What type of disconnects do you have? I have the large back hoe size ones that came with my 3rd scv kit. I was gonna get the hoses and QD's myself but if they can do it may be better to get it thru them and be just "plug and play"
Do you have any way of posting some pictures?
JB.

 

[jgrreed]

Sounds great, I will order one eventually.
What type of disconnects do you have? I have the large back hoe size ones that came with my 3rd scv kit. I was gonna get the hoses and QD's myself but if they can do it may be better to get it thru them and be just "plug and play"
Do you have any way of posting some pictures?
JB.

I'll try and post some pics, I've never done it, but I should be able to figure it out.

Mine has a JD 3rd scv kit and it hooked right up. When you say 'hoe size outlet' do you mean power beyond outlets (1/2" I think??)?? Mine are smaller than that.

I'll take the caliper to mine later for you.

-Jer.

 

[JB4310]

Ya mine are the same as the power beyond outlets, when I had the hoses made for my snow plow at the JD dealer the nipples were to small for my scv couplings, brought them back and they insisted that was the right size for the JD 3rd scv kit which I had just bought from them the week earlier, well they were not, I showed them what I needed and they gave me the correct nipples that are the same as the PBY
The parts guy said it's not supposed to be like that but it is, hope it doesn't turn into a problem down the road.

As far as posting a picture it's very easy now, right under where you hit submit reply there's a box that says manage attachments, hit that and it opens a new window, at the top click one of the boxes that say browse, that opens the files in your computer, you locate the file (if they are in there) I use thumb view to find them, click the one you want, then back in that window click upload, after you see it listed below then close that window and just hit the submit reply, your reply and thumb view of your picture wil be up in the thread. of course anyone can click the thumb and expand it.

It's easier than it was before, now it re sizes automatically so you don't have to worry about exceeding the size limit.
JB.

 

[jgrreed]

Ya, those are definitely bigger than mine. I guess you have 2 choices. One is to replace every connector end on every implement you ever use/own/borrow etc, or the second is to replace the PB sized outlets with regular ones. I'd sure do the latter!!

I measured my connectors for you on friday eve, and have since forgotten, sorry. I'll try and do them again right away.

-J.

 

[jgrreed]

Put my new back blade on tonight with my new 18-26.5" CCM toplink. It's really slick with the ability to tilt.

I'm REALLY glad I didn't go with a longer TL, it would've been useless on my machine. Now, I know that it's tractor/implement dependent, but even with the TL fully retracted the blade is still more or less vertical. I was hoping to have the blade lean forward somewhat to 'roll' dirt, gravel, snow, etc. I think next time I'd even go shorter, with the 16" to 22.5".

I'll post what my landscape rake does when I try it out (probably next spring, it's at my in laws right now).

-Jer.

 

[JB4310]

Update:

I got my CCM HTL today (Monday), just ordered it on Thursday afternoon, so that was fast.
I got the 18-26.5 with out hoses, I'll get those made up tomorrow,
anyone have an idea on the length size I should make with remotes on rear fender? probably go with 1/4" hose to slow the flow.

The unit looks well made, all welds look VG, there's a threaded hole that goes all the way thru the check valve block, not sure what it's for? It's called 2 inch but measures 2.37 on the outside.

The 2 nipples are 3/8 and just have a copper washer between them and the block, should any tape or sealer be used at that connection? I know the answer is usually no for hydraulic fittings.

JB.

 

[dfkrug]

probably go with 1/4" hose to slow the flow.

The unit looks well made, all welds look VG, there's a threaded hole that goes all the way thru the check valve block, not sure what it's for? It's called 2 inch but measures 2.37 on the outside.

The 2 nipples are 3/8 and just have a copper washer between them and the block, should any tape or sealer be used at that connection? I know the answer is usually no for hydraulic fittings.

1/4" hose is the best bet....make sure they are long enough not to bind at
full lift and full drop.

Looks like you got a 2" cylinder, which is the ID, with 3/16" walls. I have
never had or seen any hyd cyls with walls thinner than 3/16. 0.20 is very
common, too. Both are plenty thick.

Sealants are only used for fittings that seal at the threads, like NPT fittings.
Copper gaskets like on those banjo fittings I see there...no sealants. I like
to lube copper gaskets to avoid galling them, and anneal them if I am re-using
old ones.

 

[JB4310]

Thanks dfkrug, they only had 3/8 hose but it's not to fast. $90.00 for 2 hoses and fittings!


CAUTION! GENIUS AT WORK!!!

Had the hose made up and installed my HTL today, worked great for the first 8 seconds then I decided to modify it by raising it to a space that happened to be occupied by my PBY bracket.
Bent the hard hydraulic lines on the cylinder, broke the JIC fitting on one of the brand new $45 each hoses.

I can't describe the feeling I had when I first saw my handy work! The sprayed hydraulic oil all over everything was like icing on a cake.
Normally I would go off on some profane diatribe where I link all the worst words and phrases you've ever heard in one long run on sentence with no punctuation.

But I stayed fairly calm and just observed what caused the problem so I could prevent it from happening again, called Mark at CCM and he reassured me it wasn't the first time this has happened to a newbie HTL owner, ordered a couple new tubes with banjo fittings, washers and flares. The hydraulic shop took pity on me and made me a new hose at no charge.

Was able to straighten it all out and put it back together leak free for now, but I'll have the new parts in a few days anyway. I rearranged the check valve block and turned it to the side a little so it clears everything now, the hoses are 3 feet long, maybe could have been longer?

This 18-26.5 is not the perfect match for replacing my original top link, as it provides very little back angle and to much front angle capability with the next size up it would be to much back angle and not enough front. The perfect cylinder for this machine would be 19-29 inches.

CCM has been easy to work with and Mark is very helpful, said he'll see if he can find the special size I would like.

Oh Well, Live and Learn.



JB.

 

[jgrreed]

This 18-26.5 is not the perfect match for replacing my original top link, as it provides very little back angle and to much front angle capability with the next size up it would be to much back angle and not enough front. The perfect cylinder for this machine would be 19-29 inches.JB.

I agree that the 18-26.5 isn't perfect, but I'd say that something more like a 16-24 would be better. With my back blade with my 18-26.5 I find that there's too much 'toe forward' (ie the cylinder is too long), and that some more 'toe backward' (ie a shorter TL) would be more useful.

Just my thoughts. Overall a very good product, with great service.

-Jer.

 

[KRBrouwer]

I agree that the 18-26.5 isn't perfect, but I'd say that something more like a 16-24 would be better. With my back blade with my 18-26.5 I find that there's too much 'toe forward' (ie the cylinder is too long), and that some more 'toe backward' (ie a shorter TL) would be more useful.

Just my thoughts. Overall a very good product, with great service.

-Jer.

I am also thinking of adding a hydraulic top link. My current one measures 17.5" closed and 27" closed. Based on your experience, would you recommend going with the 16-22.5" or the 18-26.5" toplink from CCM? Also with the hydraulic hoses disconnected, will the cylinder stay fixed. I have a splitter that I would like to run off the same set of remotes, and would like to switch the hydraulic lines one the splitter is attached.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[dfkrug]

Also with the hydraulic hoses disconnected, will the cylinder stay fixed. I have a splitter that I would like to run off the same set of remotes, and would like to switch the hydraulic lines one the splitter is attached.

Whether or not you get the pilot valve option, the cyl will not move when
you disconnect the hoses if you use QD fittings. However, you will need
to take the pressure off the hoses before you can attach or detach them.
Once detached the QDs will maintain any pressure in the hoses that
is re-applied.

 

[JB4310]

I am also thinking of adding a hydraulic top link. My current one measures 17.5" closed and 27" closed. Based on your experience, would you recommend going with the 16-22.5" or the 18-26.5" toplink from CCM? Also with the hydraulic hoses disconnected, will the cylinder stay fixed. I have a splitter that I would like to run off the same set of remotes, and would like to switch the hydraulic lines one the splitter is attached.

Thanks,

Ken

Get the 18-26 for sure that's as close as you can get to the range you have now, with the smaller one you would barely get it to go back as far as just vertical.

I wish mine went further out but it does go past vertical a couple of inches and from what I've heard most work is done angling implement forward.

It sure make using QH even faster, picking up rear implements, lineing all 3 points up with ease and tipping them forward to be able to reach the release handles even easier without stretching.
Also found an added benefit that's almost a necessary, when climbing the ramps on my new equipment trailer, even with 3 pt all the way up the cutting edge of my box blade dug in, no problem now, just tilt it forward to provide plenty of clearance.
That was just a short BB, imagine a long rake or mower, you'd be all day cranking that top link in to gain the needed clearance.

JB.

 

[jgbanshee]

JB4310,
Do you know what your trailer weighs empty?

 

[JB4310]

JB4310,
Do you know what your trailer weighs empty?

On the tag it says 2,400lbs

 

[jgrreed]

I am also thinking of adding a hydraulic top link. My current one measures 17.5" closed and 27" closed. Based on your experience, would you recommend going with the 16-22.5" or the 18-26.5" toplink from CCM? Also with the hydraulic hoses disconnected, will the cylinder stay fixed. I have a splitter that I would like to run off the same set of remotes, and would like to switch the hydraulic lines one the splitter is attached.

Thanks,

Ken

I must say, I'd try the 16-22.5" if I were to do it again. I say this because my factory TL was 19.5" to 30", and I went with the 18-26.5", and I still find the TL is too long when fully retracted. I'm not the most experienced operator, but I can't envision what function needs 30+ degrees of 'toe forward' along with almost no 'toe backward'. 'toe' meaning the bottom edge of a blade or landscape rake. I imagine having the blade or rake pointed toe backward would allow dirt/gravel/snow etc to 'roll' better.

My suggestion would be to put an implement on your 3pt and take some TL length measurements at vertical, and at the angles at which you see yourself working, and make sure the range of the TL you choose includes those numbers.

Also, when you order from CCM, specify your color!!!

 

[Eric_Phillips]

Where does CCM measure their top links? Is this from the center of the connector or the ends of the shaft?

 

[jgrreed]

Where does CCM measure their top links? Is this from the center of the connector or the ends of the shaft?

Good Question. I'd assume it's from the centers of the connector holes, but just call Mark at CCM, or email him, and he'll let you know.

-Jer.

 

[3RRL]

My suggestion would be to put an implement on your 3pt and take some TL length measurements at vertical, and at the angles at which you see yourself working, and make sure the range of the TL you choose includes those numbers.

That is the best way to determine the REAL length of your top link.
Most cylinders are measured center to center of the connection eyes and clevis. I'm pretty sure CCM is no different. You can ask (or look up) what is the fully closed distance and fully extended distance. Compare that to what you measure with your implement tilted front to back and visa versa.
A consideration would be to add another hole in the implement top link attachment if needed to get the desired tilt. Even if you have to add a plate to it. You might not need to do that all your implements either, just the ones that don't have the desired tilt front to back.

As far as the valve, you can get adapters to screw into the valve such as for the Prince SV valve. I think they are ORB 8 (1/2 SAE) that screw into the valve. The other end of the connector adapter can be just about anything you want it to be, either male or female. I used JIC 8 for the other end instead of NPT. Much easier to work with.
Here's a link to that: ORB FITTINGS/CONNECTORS/ADAPTERS

Discount Hydraulics also has Metric and British connectors like what you need for that CCM top link DPOCV and the cylinder ports.
In case you ever need to alter or change etc. I have several of those DPOCV's on many cylinders for my tractor(s), so I've researched what threads they are.
The ports to the cylinders (and the banjo bolt thread) is 3/8 BSPP (parallel thread). The threads going into the DPOCV itself are 3/8 BSP (tapered thread). I see they used an adapter connector on your check valve going from BSP to 3/8 NPT, but you could have used any other connection if you want.
Here is a link to some of those connectors/adapters: BRITISH/METRIC CONNECTORS/ADAPTERS

As far as your hoses, I use their re-usable hose ends.
That makes making your hoses in your garage easy. You can make them the EXACT length you want plus have a JIC hose end on them. You could even alter the hose a little if it was too long or if say a 90 degree fitting was facing the wrong way. Cost for these re-usable hose ends plus cost of the hose was less than what you paid for your hoses. They hold up just the same and are reusable but offer so much more when you get to make up yourself.
For example, I paid $1.50 a foot for 2 wire 3/8" hose and between $10 and $18 for the ends. So a 4' long hose cost me $32 bucks and it is a perfect fit ... perfect ends facing the right way etc.
Here is a link to that: RE-USABLE HOSE ENDS

I hope some of that information helps...
Rob-

 

[JohnDeere4300]

JB,

That looks great, i remember seeing that on another post and just found this thread.

I would like to put one on mine and wondering if i could on a 4300.

And i have a backhoe, would that be a problem mounting the valve.