Kioti Loaders vs Kubota

   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #21  
A statement by a dealer is much much different than a statement made by a consumer. Yes, they are supposed to be biased to the brand they sell and should defend their brand.... but with honesty. They are expected not to lie or mislead, at least that is what I expect. Countless times it's been written on TBN about not trusting dealers that do exactly what appears to have been done here (assuming their claims are baseless).

I also see no connotation of anything being tongue-in-cheek. I simply want to know what is the basis of the statements. I originally thought there might be something to it, since Kubota is apparently a better quality product. If meant to be tnc, then just say so. If based on some truths, then defend them. I'm OK with that. But, I'm not OK with gross and extreme misrepresentations from dealers.
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #22  
Kubota dealers are in a bind in selling against Kioti/Bobcat. They need to play the quality card the same way Mercedes or Lexus does...you need to puff yourself up and also instill a little doubt about the other brand in order to justify the premium price you are asking. There are no Consumer Reports type independent sources of information for the customer to check against in the CUT world so dealers can say pretty much what they think they can get away with. I'm glad to see that at least these two Kubota dealers are not stooping to the "pot metal" argument to justify the differences in weight. But to be fair I don't think we have any hard data to refute the notion that Kubota is just a bit more reliable or a bit more polished. From what I can see Kubota probably does have more conservative engineering and greater resources to control quality. Kioti has made great strides in this direction and just like the Hyundai/Toyota competition the gap is narrowing rapidly. The Korean manufacturers generally have grown much faster than the Japanese in the past decade. I for one am very happy owning a tractor that is 95% as good as the Kubota equivalent for 67% of the price of that golden Kubota. And, the loader lifts more too.;)
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #23  
Last I checked, the problem posts for Kioti was about 30 - 35% greater than that of Kubota or Deere. I'm by no means saying these trends shown are scripture, but that would take your 95% number down to 65 -70%. That, coupled with your 67% price, I would say you are indeed getting what you paid for. That age old adage seems to hold true. One can only ask that quality reflects the sum paid. I too would probably be happy with the price and quality of a Kioti. It just depends on what your expectations are I guess.
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #24  
A statement by a dealer is much much different than a statement made by a consumer. Yes, they are supposed to be biased to the brand they sell and should defend their brand.... but with honesty. They are expected not to lie or mislead, at least that is what I expect. Countless times it's been written on TBN about not trusting dealers that do exactly what appears to have been done here (assuming their claims are baseless).

I also see no connotation of anything being tongue-in-cheek. I simply want to know what is the basis of the statements. I originally thought there might be something to it, since Kubota is apparently a better quality product. If meant to be tnc, then just say so. If based on some truths, then defend them. I'm OK with that. But, I'm not OK with gross and extreme misrepresentations from dealers.

It is quite a bit different for someone sitting on the side who owns one make of tractor at a time maybe two and knowing what he does with it raving about how good it is when they might not even be working it to it's fullest.

When you compare that person to someone who might be around twenty plus differnet tractors a day of all makes and models. I think that there is a bit of difference! Some of our customers are trying to do with a thirty horsepower when they should have a fifty horsepower tractor for.

We've had differnet makes and models sold around us for years, I've heard the claims of the dealers, "they are all the same, just get the lowest price",( a retired insureance agent who wanted to be a dealer) and a lot more even one with the kioti's that they were the same as Kubotas just less money!(that was before we were dealer for them). At the time we only sold the IH line-up. Today we sell three brands of compact tractors.

It is always fun listening the the customers problems. Having to remedy them of their problems is our challange. We have a few of every make in our area, some new, some old, we take them in trade from time to time. I can't think of a make that hasn't been in our area although some haven't been in our shops yet but it's always interesting to talk to the owners.

I've seen help that didn't like a particular tractor work very hard to destroy it....
I've seen them try and cover the major failures of the ones they like. From the mouths of the babes, we often learn the truths. Pride can be a winner or a looser.

I watched the color blind as well as tried to deal with them.

I've seen a lot in the years I've spent at the dealership.

I do know what we see a lot of in the shop, and can compare it to the designs that are working!
I can look at a lot of things and predict failures on new machines being introduced. I've seen some things that I thought would fail, do fine with the right owner. I can see the trouble spots that the techs won't like in five to ten years.

I see people who want to keep a machine till they quit livin' I see people that with the next bell and whistle they are on the phone to buy.

I've seen machines come and go, can't even give the total numbers in the thousands somewhere is all.

I'm a machinery junkie myself, my wife wants me to retire, I told her no way, to me I live in an adult boy toy store! This is my life.
I still maintain there is no one seat for every butt, but don't look with your eyes closed!

How many hours are you spending with tractors today?
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #25  
Last I checked, the problem posts for Kioti was about 30 - 35% greater than that of Kubota or Deere. I'm by no means saying these trends shown are scripture, but that would take your 95% number down to 65 -70%. That, coupled with your 67% price, I would say you are indeed getting what you paid for. That age old adage seems to hold true. One can only ask that quality reflects the sum paid. I too would probably be happy with the price and quality of a Kioti. It just depends on what your expectations are I guess.

There are issues like selection and reporting bias that epidemiologists watch out for when interpreting data. Those need to be considered when reading TBN too. When you have a couple of premium brands like JD and Kubota there is a certain type of customer who would only buy from them and those people are also probably more likely to just go back to the dealer with any problems rather than posting on TBN. Kioti, Mahindra and several other brands do not have nearly the dealer network or the public image of JD and Kubota. It stands to reason that people who buy Kioti and Mahindra are people who are willing to do at least a bit of the work themselves and may not get their advice only from their dealership. Kinda like the VW owners in the 60's or car enthusiasts generally. If there are more posts on Kioti problems it is likely largely because individuals are doing the work on their tractors and seeking advice. There are very very few posts on the Kioti forum of the type that suggests "I've given up on this POS and moving on to another brand". Sure there are issues like the loader cracking which Kioti handled poorly but then Kubota has had some issues with plastic fenders on BXs, PTOs on some L's etc too. The bottom line for me is that my Kioti DK40se is significantly more than 95% of the equivalent Kubota L3930 in the work it does and I definitely paid only 67%. See how much work you can get done with an equivalent cost Kubota compared to the mid 18's cost of my DK40se/KL401. Yes, there have been a couple of small issues that probably wouldn't have occured with the Kubota (seat belt retractor and fuel bowl needed replacing in the first two years). However I can still outlift anything under 50hp made by Kubota (actually anything in the L class) and I didn't need to pay extra for rear remotes, draft control, quick attach on the loader, 4 year warranty etc etc so I am quite happy with my quality/value trade off.

And yes, you do get what you pay for. Kubota and JD owners pay for fancy dealerships and the convenience those dealerships provide. Some folks want/need those benefits and others don't.
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #26  
I think it is likely that we see a higher percentage of Kioti problem posts (I'm assuming that the earlier statement was accurate) is partly because a higher percentage of Kioti owners bought from a distance and are trying to take care of the problem themselves. I predict that more of the higher priced tractor owners have a dealer closer and expect them to take care of it after paying the premium price. Is there any hard data that compares the reliability of the compact tractors or is this just a belief.
I know this repeats the last post but I just got off my Kioti CK27 after doing some loader work and believe that an equal priced JD or Kubota would not have performed close to the Kioti. (As all beliefs go - I could be wrong) How much JD or Kubota can you buy for 12 - 13000?
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #27  
Kioti, Mahindra and several other brands do not have nearly the dealer network or the public image of JD and Kubota. It stands to reason that people who buy Kioti and Mahindra are people who are willing to do at least a bit of the work themselves and may not get their advice only from their dealership.

I've had the pleasure of keeping kioti's and mahindras running, as well as taking them in trade and listening to the repairs that have been made by the customers as well as the modifications they have made to keep it working better then the original design. One was recently sold in the area at an auction for the second time in as many years, not bad for a six year old tractor with less then 2,000 hours. No real problems by the original owner till it was four years old!
I would relate more the need for constant non-normal maintence that many people might not want to deal with! I see many things that are about to fail depending on the type of use the tractor will be getting. For what I know I just wouldn't buy being built like that. They might have a change in design coming.
It could be from the lack of some of the dealers and their knowledge of the industry and the products they are trying to sell and not working with the customers to know how to properly operate the equipment.

It's good that you bring up the Bx line as we have good success with that line up with over one hundred sold on our best year. How many went into the indusrty as a total? The plastic fenders didn't work well and they needed more support, they delt with it. For the numbers sold, the amount of them broken, just a small percentage of the total.

I can't work with the fact of just looking and finding short comings and I hate cob jobs on equipment that we are taking in trade or own.

The best that I can say is if you are happy with your tractor more power to ya!
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #28  
I guess I should not assume a tractor owner is a tractor owner, period. I disagree and feel that the majority of tractor owners would try to turn wrench. I for one will post here if I need some help and view the dealer as the last resort once the machine is out of warranty. I don't buy that Kioti owners post there problems here more that Kubota owners. A tractor owner is a tractor owner regardless of brand, some are yuppies and most are not. Please understand I'm not trying to bash Kioti, I just tried to point out a trend here on TBN. I'm saying look at the trend, and you are saying the trend is misleading because Kubota owners do not post their problems like the Kioti owners do? For the numbers to be skewed that much, ALL Kioti owners registered on TBN would have to post all of their problems and only 10% of the Kubota owners would be posting their problems.

I for one think that perhaps Kioti owners, on this forum anyway, would be more inclined to go to the dealer before turning a wrench.

The trend is what it is. We just disagree with how much weight the trend holds in the real world, and there is no harm in that.
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #29  
and feel that the majority of tractor owners would try to turn wrench.

Not at all, i'd say 1/3 at best even own a full set of wrenches... and I am in the middle of farm country.

Hey Art... have you ever had in any of the Jimma backhoes that you can find online. Let me tell you... I could not in good conscious sell that kinda stuff to anyone.
 
   / Kioti Loaders vs Kubota #30  
Not at all, i'd say 1/3 at best even own a full set of wrenches... and I am in the middle of farm country.

Really? I guess I stand corrected. I was just basing this on the area I live in I guess. Man, I could not imagine life without a set of wrenches. Just goes to show you how helpless most Americans are. God forbid if the #*#* ever hits the fan in this country.
 

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