Sandy Drive project

[Tread70]

I could use a little help with my driveway/private road.

I have purchased a 5 ac. flag lot and own the road to which 2 neighbors have an easement. The road is what I can only describe as a beach. My road consists of the same type of sand like you would find on a beach. The road works great for a few days after it rains, but turns to fluff afterward.

My father may possibly be able to get a hold of some Sakrete from his previous employer. I found a .pdf file online that gives an equation to show how much portland cement to add to sand for strengthening my road. I know its not portland but if I add enough I would think it would hold up better than whats there. The bags hold 3000 lbs of Sakrete, a piece.

1. Has anyone ever used Sakrete or cement to ad structure to a very sandy road/drive or make a patio using this concept.

2. How do you think it would hold up under normal auto/pickup traffic?

3. How/What would be the best way to mix the mixture into the sand at say a 5-6" depth?

4. The potential bags my father would be able to get are in 3000 lbs. bags, what would be the easiest way to move /spread the concrete mix onto the road?

5. How would I be able to tamp/compact around 1000 ft of sandy road?

As usual, money is a concern, I have a Kubota b8200 with a 5ft scrape blade. My neighbor has a Mitsubishi 18hp tractor with a small FEL. I have access to a set of harrows and my neighbor has access to a 3pt. rototiller. The road is about a 1/4 mile but the main part is around 900-1000 ft of sand. If I can get enough Sakrete, I proposed to my neighbor that we can do my road first, then do his road. Labor is of no concern, but need some ideas on how to get this done and if you think it is feasible(will it work)?

I attached some pics of the drive. It doesn't look too bad now because it rained last night, but give a day or so and it will be like driving on a beach.

If you need more information, please let me know I will gladly take any and all advise.

Thanks in advance for any ideas,

Tread

 

[shinnlinger]

When you say Sakrete, I think of concrete mix, not cement, but is it cement? And is it really in 3000 lb bags? What does that look like? How do they move them?

Any way, what I might try is to do is spread it as evenly as possible. If they bags are really large and on a big flatbed , you can slit them and drive back and forth to until empty and then finish up spreading with your two tractors as best you can.

I would then roto till the cement into the sand. If it as soft as you say it is a walk behind tiller would work, but obviously the pto one would be better. Make sure you clean up the tiller good after.

I would then grade the road to what you want and then put a sprinkler on it for a bit and then roll it with a big roller. Renting a plate compactor or even a small "steam" roller probably won't be too bad.

Obviously you want to stay off the driveway for a few days after because you don't want permanent ruts.

 

[Tread70]

It is a mix, I believe, but has a mix of Portland, pebbles and sand. I have no clue how it is moved or what they look like, yet, I hope.

I rented a backhoe when we cleared the property, needless to say the backhoe delivery man got stuck and took us an hour or so to get him out. The septic tank truck got stuck as well and it took them over an hour to get the delivery truck out. The double wide I moved here was brought up the road with a dozer, otherwise.....he would have came to the same fate.

I am not sure if a flat bed would work in this sand as he would probably end up stuck as well.

Tread

 

[shinnlinger]

Unless they are giving you the concrete at an awesome price you might be better off buying straight cement as you already have the sand. I suppose a load of gravel gate spread wouldn't hurt, but it sounds like you have stuck issues so the your FEL's will get a workout. These 3000 lb bags sound crazy. You will have to break them apart at the entrance and spread them too I suppose.

 

[Tread70]

Free is always a good price, they usually give away the stuff that gets rejected for one reason or another, either it takes too long to cure or is too white, not white enough....

Tread

 

[shinnlinger]

Well if it is free and you can get it to your place easy enough and it isn't going to rain for a few days, go for it. Even if it breaks up and ruts it will still give you a better base than what you have now.

 

[EddieWalker]

3,000 punds of concrete isn't very much. Off the top of my head, I'd guess that a yard of concrete is going to weigh about that much, give or take a few hundered pounds. A yard will give you a 4 inch pad, 9 feet wide and 27 feet long. You can do the math and figure out how wide you want the road, but 4 inches is going to be the minimum for automotive traffic. You will also need rebar at least every two feet in a grid to hold it all together.

How far do you want to go?

Just mixing in the sacrete with the sand will do something, but I doubt it will be worth the expense or effort. If it isn't mixed properly and reinforced with rebar, it will crack, crumble and just fall apart on you.

Eddie

 

[Tread70]

Well I am hoping to get quite a few more than just 1 bag. If memory serves me it would take about 40 bags @ 3000 lbs each to give me a 12% mixof cement to sand. They used to use this method decades ago for airfields and some roads, supposedly still in use in some old communities. I need to get my laptop working so I can post the pdf file.

I do see what you mean about rebar, but with enough mixed in shouldn't it hold together for light traffic. 4 cars are all that would be using it with the occasional car or to if friends drop by, thats me and the main 1 neighbor that would be using the near full length of the road.

Any other cheap ideas?

Tread

 

[Tread70]

BTW Eddie, I love the lake project you did and have only read about the first 10-15 pages, I did peek at the end to see how it came out.

Tread

 

[dirt ditch]

Wow! Someone has a sandier road than I do. I feel sorry for you man.

May have to do a section at a time. Spread the mix out evenly over the road, then run a disc over it to mix it with the top few inches of sand. Hopefully vehicle travel will compact it into a hard surface, but it will take some time for that to happen. The best thing to do would be tons of rock but I can't afford that for my road either.

I filled a couple large mud holes in my drive with crushed concrete (set up cement that had been crushed back into small cement rocks and sand.) then bladed what was left over a short section of the road. For the first couple rains I did not think it was going to work, but when it dried out it got very hard, just from the compaction of normal vehicle travel. Water does not penetrate the surface very deep anymore. The worst part of it was the grime that got on our vehicles had to be hand washed off until it was packed in.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[tatra805]

just a warning and a thought

if you mix the cement with the sand be sure to do it in a dry period. If it rains the cement will flow down leaving an almost non cemented top layer.

So in any case this is a dry period project.


If you are going the pour-on-top-then-till way i would soak the sand with water before putting the mix on top and then right away till it and leave it alone to dry. Add water to get a semi-wet mix, not a dry-mix and not as liquid as concrete.


Another possibility, but much more work, and what i would do:
take off a top layer, flatten the remaining path as you did in the pictures and then mix the taken off top layer material with your cement mix in a semi-wet mix using a concrete mixer and spread that one out and level it.

you'll need one **** of a mixer for that surface and basically a tractor with tiller can be seen as a mobile mixer driving over the ingredients.

 

[Redneck in training]

There is a stuff that is used to limit dust in construction sites, mines etc or military uses it to build temporary landing strips in the desert. It is a polymer based on soy oil so it doen't cause environnmental damage. They spray it on, disk it, compact it and you have prety good dust free road. I don't have personal experience with it though. I just read about that while researching a polymer to seal my pond.

 

[Redneck in training]

just a warning and a thought

if you mix the cement with the sand be sure to do it in a dry period. If it rains the cement will flow down leaving an almost non cemented top layer.

So in any case this is a dry period project.


If you are going the pour-on-top-then-till way i would soak the sand with water before putting the mix on top and then right away till it and leave it alone to dry. Add water to get a semi-wet mix, not a dry-mix and not as liquid as concrete.


Another possibility, but much more work, and what i would do:
take off a top layer, flatten the remaining path as you did in the pictures and then mix the taken off top layer material with your cement mix in a semi-wet mix using a concrete mixer and spread that one out and level it.

you'll need one **** of a mixer for that surface and basically a tractor with tiller can be seen as a mobile mixer driving over the ingredients.

If you do that then you should also pull behind the tiller some kind of finisher that would make nice flat (not vecessary smooth) surface. It could be a 4 by 8 plywood with an angled "lip" on front and some weight on it.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I don't know jack about road building, other than a couple of interesting conversations that I had with a guy who built roads for living. As he said, it is all about the base. I wonder if what you have is even firm enough to consider laying concrete over. The road may have to be built up to last.

Also, you said it is just for street vehicles. Well, that won't happen... It may be as simple as a bed delivery, or as complex as a Dozer or a steel building, but a heavy truck will go on your driveway and if the bed is not deep enough, I would think you would have problems...

I mean you could put the concrete down, and see how it does. I just would not want to be around if it fails and you have to pull it up.

 

[J_J]

I believe that I would do a small test strip first before committing to the larger project.

Not to deviate to much, but.

Another idea, but cost money. Two strips of cement with wire or rebar, 6 in deep, 2 ft wide, 1000 ft long, separated by the avg width of car tires.

One yard of cement at 6 in deep two ft wide, will give a cement strip of 27 ft , times the price of cement. Plus the cost of wire/rebar.

Cost per 1000 ft strip around $5000, for a total of $10,000.

Maybe have a road that last 20 or thirty years.

This could be done in small strips, as money and time permits.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Our road isn't as bad as yours, but that's pretty normal out here. Your idea of mixing in the sacrete (as I understand it, not to make a slab, but to "stiffen" will work). We use clay soil to do the same - its cheaper if you don't have access like you do, but I don't see why the sacrete won't work, we've done cement mixed with sand for potholes. And it adds some gravel which is nice.

You can spread e3verything with the FELs, though it might take a while. Landscape rake would help too.

But its a doable project - you are in pretty much the same situation as half the roads up here like I said.

Oh, one other thought though I've not seen it done is geotextiles

 

[Redneck in training]

Try this. Perhaps it is cost effective
Soilworks® Products

 

[Tread70]

Try this. Perhaps it is cost effective
Soilworksｮ Products

That seems to have some promise to it, I will give them a call and see how much will be needed to do my 900-1000 ft of drive. Have you or anyone ever used this product or anything similiar to it?

Thanks,
Tread

 

[KennyV]

Like was said... you need a base to place the surface on... do you not have limestone or any other cheap base rock in your area?
What dose the county or state use for their road work?
I use to build and maintain my road way around my business and all the neighbor hood for 20 years .. you must have a solid base to support any traffic, a thousand feet is not that much road way to build.
Trying to get the top layer to stick together with nothing under it is going to cause a lot of work correcting things in the future... that blow sand you have is only good for getting stuck in ...
Do you have access to blacktop millings or crushed concrete? Anything to place larger chunks under your roadway...KennyV.

 

[MikeD74T]

Tread, Google "soil cement", there's lots of data available. MikeD74T