Sandy Drive project

[Tread70]

Tread, Google "soil cement", there's lots of data available. MikeD74T

That is essentially, what I am wanting to do. But, instead of portland cement, using a mix of PC, sand and small pebbles, which is what the Sakrete is. I may need to use more seeing as it isn't straight PC but has sand and pebbles mixed in it.

I have been up all night at work so I am going to sleep, I really can't think straight at the moment.

I do wonder if I do this, how will it hold up under very light traffic without having rebar of some other type of reinforcement in it.......

Tread

 

[Redneck in training]

That seems to have some promise to it, I will give them a call and see how much will be needed to do my 900-1000 ft of drive. Have you or anyone ever used this product or anything similiar to it?

Thanks,
Tread

I found more data about the product. If my interpretation is correct it will cost about $12-15/sq yard. I think that is more than concrete.

 

[shinnlinger]

Tread,

Have you confirmed that you can get all this concrete delivered to your site at minimal cost? I would think that would be the crux of this whole project. If you can get bags of it you may consider buying a tent like carport or something to put over the bags of concrete mix while you play with it.

If you can get multiple bags of the stuff and till it in it won't hurt your cause as you can always spread more sand on top when it breaks up to smooth it out right? Even cracked and broken up the big chunks and gravel in the base will help you. You could probably roll concrete reinforcing wire mesh or place rebar on top after you till but before you roll or tamp but that could come back to haunt you later and will obviously add cost.

 

[shinnlinger]

I just had another idea, You could roll out "driveway fabric" on the sand first and then put 4 inches or so of your concrete mix on top perhaps with the mesh or rebar in the middle. Wet and tamp or roll and you would be in good shape.

 

[Airic]

"KennyV Re: Sandy Drive project"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Like was said... you need a base to place the surface on... do you not have limestone or any other cheap base rock in your area?"


I had the impression that sand was the perfect base as once wet it provides 100% compaction.

 

[Tread70]

Tread,

Have you confirmed that you can get all this concrete delivered to your site at minimal cost? I would think that would be the crux of this whole project. If you can get bags of it you may consider buying a tent like carport or something to put over the bags of concrete mix while you play with it.

If you can get multiple bags of the stuff and till it in it won't hurt your cause as you can always spread more sand on top when it breaks up to smooth it out right? Even cracked and broken up the big chunks and gravel in the base will help you. You could probably roll concrete reinforcing wire mesh or place rebar on top after you till but before you roll or tamp but that could come back to haunt you later and will obviously add cost.

As of now, I have not confirmed that I can get it. My father has talked to him once to inquire about it and was told they do have one reject shipment but is in 3000 lbs bags. I don't think he has tried calling him back to get a confirmation. I know he got some once, years ago, but in normal 94 lbs bags. He used their forklift and was loading it up on a friends flat bed tractor trailer.

Right now I am trying to figure and make sure that I wouldn't be causing myself more work down the line, before I get the stuff. I mean if I get it and would be best to not use it then I would have to store it, and or dispose of it.

Call this pre-project planning and development......

Tread

 

[Tread70]

I just had another idea, You could roll out "driveway fabric" on the sand first and then put 4 inches or so of your concrete mix on top perhaps with the mesh or rebar in the middle. Wet and tamp or roll and you would be in good shape.

Possibly mix into the mix when tilling what they use in concrete reinforcement, glass fiber. Not sure if it would help or not.... Just brainstorming.

Tread

 

[Tread70]

I am not sure but if sand is the best, as far as 100% compaction, when wet then I definately have plenty of it

 

[dirt ditch]

Just running the numbers on this project for cubic yards of concrete needed for a layer 1 inch thick.

Measured in feet:
length X width X depth = cubic feet
divide by 27 to get cubic yards

1000ft X 24ft X .0833 = 1999.2 cubic feet

1999.2 / 27 = 74.04 cubic yards for a 1 inch layer.

Can you get enough Sakrete to put on the road to make a difference?

Could find out how much Sakrete you can get. Figure out how thick a layer that will be on the road, then buy a couple bags of Pre-Mixed concrete and run some tests on different ways to apply the mixture to the road and see which one works best or if it will work at all.

 

[dodge man]

Like Eddie said, the sackrette is not going to hold up. I don't think it will do you any good at all. The first time you drive over it, it will fall apart. I hate to be negative, but I think it would be a waste of time. Even with rebar in it and 6 inches thick, it will break up because there is no base under it. I think adding gravel and/or the stabilizer product would do a much better job. I think if you do add gravel, you will have to keep adding it as it will just gradually disappear in the sand. If you keep adding gravel, it will eventually build up and give you a base to work with.

Just another note, in my area "sand" is often used for backfill under roads. Sand in our area is not near as pure as what you have. The sand in my area would be like mixing clay in with what you have. When the moisture is just right, it will bond together very well and pack down really hard. The problem with your sand is that the grain size is all the same, it has nothing to bond with. If clay was mixed in with it, it mmight pack down well and then gravel could be added on top.

 

[Redneck in training]

Back in Czech republic I am originally from we used river sand (contains only small or none amount of clay) as a base for concrete. It doesn't retain water and stays somewhat "plastic" under the concrete. Because of that potential "pressure points" are minimized when the ground moves and/or pressure is applied so the concrete wouldn't crack under load. So it depends on the type of sand you have there.

 

[welderboy14]

how many feet of sand is their if theirs only 5ft or less you could scrap the sand off and angel the side of the driveway and then you would not have deal with the sand or 3000lb bags of concret

 

[have_blue]

Tread70,

Do a google search on "soil cement".

Tilling Portland cement into soil is an excellent way to make smooth lanes that will withstand everything but heavy trucks. Doesn't take a lot of portland either. I did a driveway entrance that lept washing out, and that put the kibosh on it. Some grasses can grow in soil cement. I let bermdagrass grow on mine and mow it real low. Looks real nice.

The sand complicates things. The Portland normally gets the moisture it needs to set from soil. Another problem is sand doesn't pack or roll down smoothly, so maybe tilling up the road will pull up some soil. Any soil except black topsoil is suitable for making soil cement.

 

[bc realtor]

should work. get a dump truck to apply and water after. used to stabilize beaches by a simular method. anything that makes a larger piece than a grain of sand will stabilize the sand.break the bags in the dump truck and aply as desired

 

[Wis Bang]

3000# bags sounds like 'super sacks' a re-useable bulk package w/ top loops for forklifts & an outlet valve on the bottom. I don't know if forks on a CUT FEL would lift them high enough to empty them, might need a jobsite forklift.

If this is the package type, figure on returning the MT sacks intact. I've had industrial raw materials dumpped from the bags into pnumatic hopper trailers, dockside w/ the folded sacks being shipped back for re-use while we delivered inland w/ the trailer. The sacks are expensive.

Soil Stabilization w/ portland cement is an old process. I've also seen landfill linings made w/ bentonite clay & excavated soil mixed in a pug mill. A thick mixture compacted w/ sheeps foot and vibratory rollers was installed under the bituminous layer w/ the leechate collection above. Very steep slopes and no rebar...

In NJ it is common to build road bases from formed and compacted sand but it is not beach sand. It has a more clay like color. Once compacted they lay the BCBC base layer of asphalt right onto the sand.

Coming from a cement producing area, I've seen a dump of 'stack dust' the cement dust that was collected by the stack pollution controls. They run a quarry dump out from the mill over top the pile & dump the new stuff at the end. It got really hard w/ just rain and traffic...

 

[terry.dinerman]

Hello Neighbors-

Say "Hey" to a new member....I've been lurking for a little while and have been enjoying every bit of it....what a great pool of talent you have here!

Anyway -

I am also considering using a "soil-cement" stablization for about 1,000 ft of sandy/clay driveway here in the Post-Oak Savanna of Texas...

I need to compare the cost of local available limestone base with portland cement....

Any advice is appreciated...

HAVEBLUE-
How did you calculate the amount of portland to add to the subsoil?
What did you use to till the cement in?
Did you have to add water?
What compaction method did you use?

Thanks-

T

 

[sixguns]

best bet would be 12 inches of 5 inch breaker run with 3/4 gravel over top a couple inches thick. No way a couple inches concrete would ever hold up even with a solid base.

 

[gwjd]

soil stabilization is a option you might in quer if they can mix in base rock as well

 

[tnhomestead]

I used to get the scrap concrete free if I shoveled it, 5 bucks for a scoop load, made a pretty good base,see what a concrete place will do for you!

 

[gwjd]

how deep is the sand could you sell/ give it away then dig draniage ditches to prevent a mud hole you find the right person to give it to they might even provide the machine