I need to automate my bale handling, too

[gf5205]

OK, so now you have bales on a few wagons headed to the barn full of hay. Lets say you have 120 - 150 on a wagon. Now what? Seems to me you now need to unload these wagons before heading back out to the field, eh? More wagons, drive wagons into barn and tilt-to-dump?

Not sure why your baler is giving you inconsistent bale size and weight, but these factors are easy to adjust and involve the raking process, too.

There's a NH1034 stacke for sale on Craigslist around here for $5600. My 1012 takes 64 back to the barn and leaves a pile there while I head back out to get the rest of a 200 bale evening.

Just curious, because the baler/bale size issue will follow you to the accumulators too, I would imagine.

BTW: I use to tow a 4 place snowmobile trailer behind my baler. It easily handled 250 bales with a person helping out. The problem still was that the traler is full and must be unloaded before heading back out in the field.

We sell about 2/3rds of our hay off of the wagons, so they get emptied by the customers, and we can get the wagons under cover easily and quickly if the customers aren't on time or rain threatens. So our biggest problem is getting the hay onto the wagons. The grabber doesn't help get the hay up into the mow - but neither does anthing else. We are thinking about ground level hay storage, but it's not in the budget right now. If weren't selling most of our hay I would have considered Bale Baskets more strongly.

Our bales are inconsistent because our fields are inconsistent. I don't think the Kuhns will have much problem with bales of different length and density - but then again I never used one .

Greg

 

[gf5205]

What is the lead time on ordering a new Kuhn's Accumilator?

The accumulator and grabber were delivered today while I was at work. Three guys in a diesel pickup with a gooseneck, two of whom are Kenny's sons, brought it. My wife ran the loader tractor and got to use the new skid steer QA for the first time to pick up the grabber.

They unloaded the accumulator by having my wife pickup the rear end and they drove out from under it part ways, then she switched to the front end and they drove out the rest of the way. Then they set it up. It was cold, 45 degrees, and raining and they weren't dressed for the weather, so Donna got them rain gear and hats to use while they were working. Donna sent them on their way with cookies. They're planning to drive staight through to Ohio tonight. Donna thought they were nice kids and that they knew what they were doing and were pretty safe doing it. Hopefully the wagons will come soon.
Greg

 

[gf5205]

The wagons came Friday at about 9 am. They unloaded them and set them up. There wasn't much to do, just stand the backboard of the wagon that had been on top of the load. Donna sent theboys on their way with a second breakfast of bacon and pancakes. They were headed to Kennebunk to set up some equipment for another Maine customer.

In the mean time I have attached the accumulator to the baler, a JD 328. It didn't take much. I had to remove the bale chute, 2 bolts and 4 chains. Then I moved the hitch over. It swivels and was offset so that it wasn't under the chute to make hooking up wagons easier. Now it is centered behind the bale chanber. It is adjustable for length with the hitch fitting inside of a channel and held by a pin. I had to cut an inch off of the end of the hitch that slides into the channel so that I could use the shortest setting. The pin is supposed to be 5 or 6 inches behind the bale chamber. It looks like everything lines up OK. We'll find out in time. Kuhns has added a chain with spring tension from each side of the baler to the accumulator to keep from breaking bales while turning.

I got the hoses made up that go from the 3rd function QDs to the cylinder on the grabber. You have to measeure the length with the loader all the way up and the grabber all the way down because that's the longest distance you'll need. We dropped 15 bales of hay from the mow yesterday and practiced using the grabber. Moved them from ground to wagon, wagon to ground, wagon to wagon just having fun and getting an idea of what it will be like. I'm anxious to see how long it will take to load a wagon.

Next we'll modify our old wagons. We'll make them 9 ft wide and rig a new backboard. The current backboards rely on braces running from the top of the backboard to about 4 feet up the sides of the wagons. The braces will be in the way. I plan to try making the braces attach much closer to the back using the angle of a half bale forward for each row of the 4 rows I plan on. If I use plywood on the sides it should give enough stability for traveling when the wagon is empty.

We'll start cutting with the next good 4 day forecast.
Greg

 

[gf5205]

I just got a camera so here are some pics of the new equipment and hay wagon mods.
I made the wagon 1' wider, removed the braces that were on the sides and added a slanted back so the hay will stack better.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

Looks great!

 

[gf5205]

Which of your tractors will pull the baler and accumulator?

That 15-bale accumulator lays bales down in a 5 long by 3 wide pattern and the accumulator picks it up in the 5x3 arrangement. So, assuming 50 lb bales, that's 750 lb of hay and the weight of the grabber, say 500 lb. The center of gravity is about 45" +22.5"=67.5" (5ft -7.5in)from the lifting pins on your FEL, assuming 45" bale length. The ML250 FEL on my 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto) can lift 2980 lb at the bucket pins. Your FEL probably has similar specs, so I don't think you have a lifting problem. Just carry enough ballast on the 3pt to balance the tractor.

My winter project is to build a hay squeeze/accumulator to handle eight 14"x18"x45" bales (about 50 lb each). I plan to stack two bales high (16 total bales) and lift this 800 lb load of hay with the squeeze to at least 6-ft height (the loader can reach about 10 ft high). I carry a heavy double bottom plow on the 3pt for ballast. I have a few more weeks of work and then I'll post photos.

I missed this post earlier. I'll be using the JD5203 to pull the baler and accumulator. The grabber is mounted on the JD5205. The 521 loader is only rated about 2100 lbs. at the pins, but had no trouble lifting a grab of last years hay, which I realize is lighter because it has continued to dry out. I had an MX6 rotary cutter on the rear and balance and traction were fine. The grabber weighs about 750 lbs. I hope to be able to get by without the counterweight. The tire are filled with Rimguard.
Greg

 

[gf5205]

Well we finally got a chance to use the new equipment. We woke to a forcast for a 2 1/2 day window on Thursday, so I mowed about 2 1/2 acres before 7. I mowed so little because it was hard to find ground firm enough to mow, I didn't know how fast the hay would dry on top of the wet ground and I didn't know how well things would go.

My wife tedd at 2 on Thursday and I tedd after work at about 7. On Friday I raked at 11 and 2 and we started baling just before 3. The accumulator worked as advertised! It left 370 bales in groups of 15 on the field. I was able to load 180 on each of the new wagons. Each grab was a learning experience. I had to get off the tractor and realign bales a few times. If the ground were dry it would be easier to push the bales around to push the grab together.

All in all the day was very encouraging. My wife says that baling was easier. She could go faster and she didn't have to worry about the crew on the wagon every time she needed to change gears. For my part, picking up the grabs was a chore as opposed to the comraderie on the hay wagon. I really got to know my niece and nephew better through haying. But it is a worthwhile trade off because it means we can keep making small squares for us and our customers without worrying about labor, and in the end it is always easier to
only have to rely on yourselves. We didn't have to guess what time they hay would be ready so that we could have the crew available.

It looks like we may have another window on Wednesday and Thursday, so now that I know the hay will dry on top of muddy fields I'll cut more. I scouted out about 5 acres that should be dry enough even with showers expected for the next few days.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

We're getting the same weather. On weds am I bet the showers wouldn't come and mowed 270 bales of mine then Thurs am I mowed about the same for a neighbour. Work interfered so I couldn't get the tedding done at the right time but we baled it up saturday and put it in. A good test run as I haven't had the square baler out this year and the conveyor is an old that hasn't been used in 5 years.

Was a bit annoying to spend and hour or two looking for a belt to get it running while the hay crew sat on two wagons. Someone had tossed out the right belt in the time it sat.

 

[gf5205]

We're getting the same weather. On weds am I bet the showers wouldn't come and mowed 270 bales of mine then Thurs am I mowed about the same for a neighbour. Work interfered so I couldn't get the tedding done at the right time but we baled it up saturday and put it in. A good test run as I haven't had the square baler out this year and the conveyor is an old that hasn't been used in 5 years.

Was a bit annoying to spend and hour or two looking for a belt to get it running while the hay crew sat on two wagons. Someone had tossed out the right belt in the time it sat.

This weekend the weather was better than predicted, so it was good enough to bale Saturday and Sunday, but I didn't have any hay down because of the forecast of clouds and showers.
Greg

 

[Mike120]

Greg,

Did you get the On Edge model or the Flat? I'm looking at the Kuhns as a replacement for my old beatup stacker wagon. Because it stacks flat, I've never tried stacking on edge. I'm happy to do it if the grabber works as well as I assume it does. Thanx.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

This weekend the weather was better than predicted, so it was good enough to bale Saturday and Sunday, but I didn't have any hay down because of the forecast of clouds and showers.
Greg

I learned early on that there is always going to be rain forecast when you need to cut. I gamble and every now and then get caught but if I gamble I only cut 10 -15 acres depending on the forecast. It seems the only time we get any long stretch of good weather is after the hay is way past prime. Also, this year they are predicting the rest of the year to be the same as it has been with rain and basically unpredictable weather all the time. Good luck to you and hopefully you can get your hay done.

 

[gf5205]

Greg,

Did you get the On Edge model or the Flat? I'm looking at the Kuhns as a replacement for my old beatup stacker wagon. Because it stacks flat, I've never tried stacking on edge. I'm happy to do it if the grabber works as well as I assume it does. Thanx.

Hi Robert,
I got the 15 bale on edge model. The grabber worked pretty well and I expect to get better at it. I did get off the tractor to push bales back into line on about 4 of the 25 groups I picked up. Some one with more skill wouldn't have had to get off once. I also think it will be easier once the ground is drier and the hay slides more easliy, then you should be able to push them around to tighten up the group. I'll also adjust the width of the grabber to catch the outside bales better, just a matter of two bolts.

My wife and I were very encouraged. I also need to work on placing the grabs on the wagon. I had to tie the two 180 bale loads we made on the Kuhns 9x20 wagons. The front of the load was too steep and some of the bales were hanging off of the off side of the wagon too much. I may need to shorten my bale length a couple of inches and work on spacing the lower rows out a little, even though the wagon has a slanted back.

I did notice one difference that I wasn't expecting when stacking the hay in my barn. Because the bales were on end on the wagon they didn't settle and a stack of six flat in my barn was about an inch taller than before and it made stuffing the top row in a little tougher since I had almost no clearance to begin with.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

Any updates on how your system is working out?

 

[AKfish]

I've been looking at the different "automation" systems for small square bale production for a number of year's now.

From what I can see... the prices for Kuhn, Hoelsher, and Steffen's systems are within a couple of hundred dollars - depending upon the size of the accumulators and grabber.

Pretty spendy unless you've got enough acres and bale numbers for it to "pencil out". But, there's getting to be some nice used units scattered around the country that are priced alot more reasonably.

Like the Kuhn for it's simplicity - nothing to really break down. Real drawback for me is the overall size. My fields are small; with big trees around the edges. With a 75hp tractor, baler and a 10-bale accumulator; I'd guess that train would be darn near 45 feet long! Need some real estate space to manuever!

Haven't taken the plunge, yet. Keep lookin' for a good, used system.

AKfish

 

[slowzuki]

In the same boat. I've been buying running gears, 2 x 8 ton, 3 x 4 ton, and a 27 ft flatdeck trailer in the anticipation of getting an accumulator and putting them to work in the meantime. Called about a good deal on a Steffen Systems with 2 grapples but the dealer went bankrupt and it sold at auction 2 weeks ago.

Not keen on the ground draggers, the Kuhn's would require a lot of cutting around my fields. I've ruled out the NH balewagons as my 45-50 lb bales would drive them nuts.

I've found the farmhands can be had for cheap, but parts are apparently a problem. The grapples are usually long gone too. Learning a pair of grapples aren't cheap to get either.

In the UK they have accumulators too but they call them flat 8's, some nice looking setups with squeezes that grab 56 bale blocks (7 tiers of 8 bales) that are about 6 ft x 6 ft. They have loader, 3 point and trailed squeezes. (Browns, chilton etc) A 56 bale block with a few wraps of twine or stretch plastic would stack nice to 2 high, and would sell nicely to my customers. Could set a block nicely on the back of the 1 ton, or 4 of them on my trailer. You can handle them with a grapple by layer too, or just by 8,16 or 24 with a hay buddy type squeeze.

Worst thing is they are out of fashion in the UK, all the equipment is cheap, but even sitting right by a port, its costs a fortune to send a container of it over here.

Haven't taken the plunge, yet. Keep lookin' for a good, used system.

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

I've ruled out the NH balewagons as my 45-50 lb bales would drive them nuts.

I've found the farmhands can be had for cheap, but parts are apparently a problem. The grapples are usually long gone too. Learning a pair of grapples aren't cheap to get either.

In the UK they have accumulators too but they call them flat 8's, some nice looking setups with squeezes that grab 56 bale blocks (7 tiers of 8 bales) that are about 6 ft x 6 ft. They have loader, 3 point and trailed squeezes. (Browns, chilton etc) A 56 bale block with a few wraps of twine or stretch plastic would stack nice to 2 high, and would sell nicely to my customers. Could set a block nicely on the back of the 1 ton, or 4 of them on my trailer. You can handle them with a grapple by layer too, or just by 8,16 or 24 with a hay buddy type squeeze.

Worst thing is they are out of fashion in the UK, all the equipment is cheap, but even sitting right by a port, its costs a fortune to send a container of it over here.

The bale wagons are a big investment, too! Surprising how they hold their value. The pull-type are the only ones I've seen that I might consider to be "cheap"!

There's a few FarmHand systems in use around me. But, you'd better be darn handy when they go down... everything has to be fabbed up! Still might go look at a grabber and accumulator at a neighbor's place in the next week or so. The old, homesteader has just come out of heart surgery and his kids put up all the hay last summer and they don't want to do it AT ALL, anymore! A group of hay grower neighbor's just finalized a bulk order for fertilizer -- and they passed.. not gonna fertilize their fields this year.

That'll put a dent in local hay supplies. They typically put up 9-12K small squares a season.

I'm on the opposite side of the planet from the UK. 'Course, if that ice keeps melting.. I'll have shipping across the North Pole pretty soon!

AKfish

 

[slowzuki]

I've seen a few cheapish tow type bale wagons here, but the only way I was bale to make that system work time wise is to build pallets to slip on the rack and "roadside" the hay and tarp with transport tarps then come back and pick them up later.

Even then, the stacks are likely to fall over unless you band a few of the layers while on the rack, which isn't so bad, but I can't move a 6000-7000 lb pallet of hay, except with the wagon. I could go with a smaller 56 bale wagon, but then I'm off tying more loads, a field would take forever to clean up, but the pallets could easily but put on trailers.

 

[gf5205]

Any updates on how your system is working out?

It has worked out better than we could have possibly hoped for. The Kuhns equipment works great with almost no problems. I think a spring might have come off a couple of times in three years.
I think the biggest change is that we now can handle 600 bales a day without breaking a sweat. It's hard to emphasize enough how much my wife appreciates not having to arrange for a crew of friends and family to stack on the wagons. No more guessing when the hay will be ready or baling at the wrong time because that's when the help is available. She bales when it's ready and I usually stack it on the wagons with the grabber when I get home from work.
We have 5 wagons that hold 600 bales stacking 4 high. We don't go higher because it is easier for us and for our customers to unload if we keep it low. Also the loads we take home travel better without tying.
I have become interested in trying to make more consistent bales with the JD328 to make the loads better. I added BaleSkis and they helped alot. Besides making denser bales with less pressure the baler also misses tying less often. It never missed much, but now it is rare. I am thinking about adding the AirBaler because we have som areas with light, fine hay that it may help with.
We couldn't be happier.
Greg

 

[slowzuki]

Good to hear its going well. Only 120 bales per wagon is a bit concerning for me, I need to get closer to 1200 bales a day at least, and if I decked every running gear, thats 8 wagons and a 27 ft flatbed tailers between me and the neighbour. Picking up off the ground back in the 80's/90's with two wagons and crews, we have put as many as 3600 bales a day into the barn but those days are long gone. There were 6 people on each crew plus a guy baling like mad. Now just 2-4 people is the norm, and usually a couple of them have never done hay.

 

[gf5205]

Good to hear its going well. Only 120 bales per wagon is a bit concerning for me, I need to get closer to 1200 bales a day at least, and if I decked every running gear, thats 8 wagons and a 27 ft flatbed tailers between me and the neighbour. Picking up off the ground back in the 80's/90's with two wagons and crews, we have put as many as 3600 bales a day into the barn but those days are long gone. There were 6 people on each crew plus a guy baling like mad. Now just 2-4 people is the norm, and usually a couple of them have never done hay.

I could go another row higher and would get to about 800 on the wagons, but we like unloading the ones stacked lower. We will typically unload a couple hundred into our barn during the day and customers usually take the rest. We have an indoor riding arena for any that gets held over to the next morning. My wife and I bale about 5000 and put up about 1200 for our own use. It is now easier to do this with no help than it was with help before the accumulator.