Need fleet of equipment for new operation

[Waldershrek]

I am in the process of starting an operation and have been looking at equipment. I've been looking at all used equipment but have been wondering about if there was certain models better than others, things to look out for, known problems with certain models etc. I'm also looking for rough estimates on cost of all necessary machinery. This will be a small holstein heifer operation at first hopefully working up to a dairy operation. I already have an Allis 170 with bucket.

I will need:

tractor (would like 4020 diesel) to be used as main machine
mower (disc mower preferred)
rake
tedder
baler (with kicker)
3-4 bale wagons
manure spreader (box type small/medium size)

Obviously I'd need more for a dairy operation but this is just a start for heifers. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Also i have a barn and land but the barn has not been used for livestock in many years and needs to be outfitted. What kind of equipment am I looking at for the barn?

 

[bill in ny]

i've had good luck with new holland mowers and balers. i like kuhn for tedders and rakes.

 

[bill in ny]

go to every farm auction you can in the spring.

 

[Waldershrek]

Unfortunately I missed the spring auction in Broome County but I'm planning on going this year. I've been pricing things out on Tractorhouse as far as what everything is going for in what condition.

 

[flusher]

I am in the process of starting an operation and have been looking at equipment. I've been looking at all used equipment but have been wondering about if there was certain models better than others, things to look out for, known problems with certain models etc. I'm also looking for rough estimates on cost of all necessary machinery. This will be a small holstein heifer operation at first hopefully working up to a dairy operation. I already have an Allis 170 with bucket.

I will need:

tractor (would like 4020 diesel) to be used as main machine
mower (disc mower preferred)
rake
tedder
baler (with kicker)
3-4 bale wagons
manure spreader (box type small/medium size)

Obviously I'd need more for a dairy operation but this is just a start for heifers. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Also i have a barn and land but the barn has not been used for livestock in many years and needs to be outfitted. What kind of equipment am I looking at for the barn?

Here's what I paid recently for a few haying implements:

MF124 baler (2-twine, small squares)--$2K
JD 350 bar rake--$800
Cultipacker (10 ft wide)--$600

If you intend to plant a hay crop rather than just mowing, raking and baling native grasses, you'll need tillage equipment.

Minneapolis Moline 13-ft wheel disc--$600
JD 2-14 moldboard plow--$200

I don't have a barn, so I can't help you there.

 

[Waldershrek]

The land mom and dad have is already planted with timothy/alfalfa so I won't have to worry about re-seeding for awhile anyway.

 

[jagyzf]

You might want to consider a round baler and wrapper rather than a small square baler and wagons. I have been helping with hay since 1987 and it's hard at times in upstate to get hay dry. With a round baler if it gets dry you bale it, if not wrap it. It seems to be less labor intenstive and you can get the hay in faster. Now if you want to sell any, then you will want a small square baler. This past year the forcasts changed sometimes hours later let alone a day or so later.

As far as the machines, I like JD disk mowers, square balers depends on your land, but JD and NH both make very good machines. Deere kicker I like better in small fields, NH thower in hilly areas. Tedder and rakes, Kuhn is hard to beat, I would go with a rotary rake. NH and Kuhn both make very good spreaders.

One note on a diskbine, I would only run one behind a cab tractor. Stones once in a while come off the cutter bar and our cab get hit about once a year. I would also not buy a disk mower more than about 5 years old. If not taken care of they can cost a small fortune to repair.

JD 4020 is a very good machine, and I love JD, but it might be hard to find one in good shape that doesn't bring big money at an auction. JD 4230, 4240, 3150's I've seen go for less. IH 966, 1066, 986, 1086 would be other models to at least consider.
On an older JD powershift trans are great, but can cost more than the machine is worth to repair if it wasnt cared for.


Your barn, what style is it? Freestall, tie stall? Depending on what it is will depend what you need.

 

[Waldershrek]

I have found what appear to be some good used 4020's for 7,000-9,000. The Kuhn rakes and tedders are out of my price range I think from what I've seen lately.

The barn was equipped with stanchions originally (the old lock around the head type). Most were removed when mom and dad got rid of the animals. I don't even know where to buy the tie stalls I'm looking for. I would like just the bar with a chain to hook onto the animals collar. I know I'll need some automatic watering bowls and more lighting.

My mother has horses and uses square bales as well so I would be baling their hay for them in thanks for them letting me run my little fantasy on their land

That's the reason for the square bales over the round. Plus I know I'll have more than I'll use so I can sell some too.

 

[brin]

For what it's worth, an old time farmer warned me to never - ever buy a used hay baler - so I didn't and probably a good thing at that time...I would not have known what to look for so if you know balers maybe you will be alright.

 

[jagyzf]

If you are planning on having animals, down the road a dairy you need to have reliable equipment. It would be one thing if like my brother inlaw you were going to just play around and sell some crops. Your comment about not being able to afford Kuhn rake or tedder, these would be your least expensive purchase. I'll tell you something, 3 things I would never skimp on, disk mower, baler, and manure spreader. As I said disk mowers can be very expensive to repair, balers break when you have the most hay down with rain coming in. What sucks about spreaders is they always break when there full, usually in the middle of winter. Also you really haven't give much information to go by.

Do you want a disk mower with conditioner?
How much hay are you planning on doing?
Where are you going to store the hay?
How much are you planning on spending?
How many animals are you going to start with?
Are you able to fix you own machinery?
Do you know much about balers?
Your barn will need stalls, I assume a gutter cleaner, for a dairy some kind of milking system, milk cooler, storage etc.

 

[Waldershrek]

I was simply saying from the prices I've been checking Kuhn seems to be one of the more expensive brands.

To answer your other questions:

-I do not NEED a conditioner
-I plan to do 3-5,000 bales to start
-The hay will be stored in the loft above the main barn
-For machinery for hay and manure spreading I'm planning on 20-30,000 dollars
-I don't know how many animals I plan to start with. Plan on just buying them as I can afford them.
- I am able to fix simple problems with the machinery. I also have 2 uncles that work on farm machinery for a living that can help if needed.
- I do not plan on milking right away to keep equipment costs down and will be doing barn cleaning by hand

 

[bill in ny]

you can get by with used equipment for awhile. up untill a couple of years ago i baled with a jd 336 baler, mowed with a nh 479 haybine, raked with a nh 258 rake, and tedded with an old kuhn tedder. all this machinery cost me less than $8,000. we usually got around 5,000 bales a year with this equipment without much trouble.

 

[farmerjim]

as far as eq goes i would def. not skimp on the tractor ,disc mower,and baler. def invest in a rotary rake or atleast a tandem rollerbars and at least a 4basket tedder.i would be very inclined to do rounds and wrap them as well. esp up there. you could always get an older small sq baler just for doing some horse hay for your folks, or if possible borrow 1 from a neighbor? cleaning the barn by hand may work for now but it will get old fast esp if you have over 20 head. you may want to find a small tractor and put a blade on it to scrape the alley down or if you barn has a gutter on it you can probably find a barn cleaner to work. if you do grow to a dairy have you considered going the gazing route? it will def be cheaper on your pocket equip/ feed wise. even w/ a heifer operation whats the feed cost going to be? i would assume since you didn't mention growing corn you will need to buy corn silage and/or some other feed to keep the correct diet for the heifers. w/ a heifer operation and possibly a dairy i would consider a chopper/ forage wagon as well if not w/ a corn head at 1st def get a hay head. as chopping some grass forage is a quick easy way to bring in a grass crop, and eliminates most of the drying time. good luck

 

[farmerjim]

as far as eq goes i would def. not skimp on the tractor ,disc mower,and baler. def invest in a rotary rake or atleast a tandem rollerbars and at least a 4basket tedder.i would be very inclined to do rounds and wrap them as well. esp up there. you could always get an older small sq baler just for doing some horse hay for your folks, or if possible borrow 1 from a neighbor? cleaning the barn by hand may work for now but it will get old fast esp if you have over 20 head. you may want to find a small tractor and put a blade on it to scrape the alley down or if you barn has a gutter on it you can probably find a barn cleaner to work. if you do grow to a dairy have you considered going the gazing route? it will def be cheaper on your pocket equip/ feed wise. even w/ a heifer operation whats the feed cost going to be? i would assume since you didn't mention growing corn you will need to buy corn silage and/or some other feed to keep the correct diet for the heifers. w/ a heifer operation and possibly a dairy i would consider a chopper/ forage wagon as well if not w/ a corn head at 1st def get a hay head. as chopping some grass forage is a quick easy way to bring in a grass crop, and eliminates most of the drying time. good luck

 

[Waldershrek]

I have also been looking at a barn cleaner but it isn't an immediate priority. The cows will be grazing during the summer months but obviously not during the winter. I am planning on doing hay and grain for the heifers to start until I can secure somebody to provide silage or get the equipment myself.

I do not have an actual number as far as cost of grain or silage yet. Anybody that has any helpful info there please feel free to chime in.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I was simply saying from the prices I've been checking Kuhn seems to be one of the more expensive brands.

To answer your other questions:

-I do not NEED a conditioner
-I plan to do 3-5,000 bales to start
-The hay will be stored in the loft above the main barn
-For machinery for hay and manure spreading I'm planning on 20-30,000 dollars
-I don't know how many animals I plan to start with. Plan on just buying them as I can afford them.
- I am able to fix simple problems with the machinery. I also have 2 uncles that work on farm machinery for a living that can help if needed.
- I do not plan on milking right away to keep equipment costs down and will be doing barn cleaning by hand

I would recommend a mower/conditioner given that your cutting an alfalfa mix and you are in New York. It will help your dry down considerably. Alfalfa will take longer to dry then the Timothy even with the conditioner in our climate, without it I fear you will be dealing with a lot of headaches trying to get your hay dry enough for square bales.

Also, if your tedding the Alfalfa/timothy do so early in the morning when the dew is still on and be gentle (just let the tractor idle) so that your more stirring the hay then throwing it. If you go when the alfalfa is dry (without the dew) and run with higher rpms you will knock most of your leaves off and have poor quality hay.

I wish you the best getting your venture started. It is not easy to get into farming and can be very expensive to do so as you are finding out. Hopefully your budget allows for the cost of the animals as they are cheaper now then they were a few years ago but they still add up quick if your buying stock to get started with.

 

[jagyzf]

If that is all you are going to start with I would skip the disk mower for now, you can get a good NH sickle bar mower conditioner for much less. When things go wrong with it they are much cheaper and easier to fix. I would put more money towards the spreader and baler. You can always upgrade later and probably not be out to much.
I can tell you here in central NY in May and June, this year all summer it can take 4 days to get the hay to dry, I can't imagine not having the conditioner. The dew was heavy this year all year, didn't dry off till 10-11 most of the summer. Usually July and some of August you have almost none. Due to this we did go to wrapping round bales because we just couldn't get hay dry at times.
I can tell you from having 2 grandfathers that were hobby farmers. You get more than 6-8 cows and it takes a long time to clean the barn by hand. If you do buy a used spreader, I would buy a new apron chain and sprockets. Take it from me, in the winter, even a good looking one will break, not so much from the load, but from freezing.
If the hay is going up you will need an elevator, you can only throw bales so far and so high.

 

[Waldershrek]

I already have 2 elevators for hay. I'm also on the lookout for a barn cleaner if I can find one cheap enough. My uncle works for a company that installs milking systems, parlors, barn cleaners, feed delivery systems etc so I have put a bug in his ear as well.

 

[Waldershrek]

Can anybody give me the basic differences between these balers?

JD

24T
214T
336
346


NH

273
310
315
320




Also, is there any performance difference between a bar rake, a rotary rake and a wheel rake?

 

[JasG]

Can anybody give me the basic differences between these balers?

JD

24T
214T
336
346


NH

273
310
315
320




Also, is there any performance difference between a bar rake, a rotary rake and a wheel rake?

Are you sure it was a T214 and not a T14? The T machines were very old and I think made in the 1950's into the 60's. I still see some around, if taken care of work so so, for your limited production they would be fine. 336 was made from I think 1970 ish till the 1980's, very good machine and is higher capacity than the T series. The 346 was made the same years as the 336, the plunger speed was higher and that baler was able to go a lot faster, if you didn't feed larger volumes of hay through it, it actually didn't like it. Probably would be over kill for you.