Preferred gas engines for 1 ton pickups

[Baranx4]

Today you'd have a hard time finding a truck that isn't good, regardless of brands. Nissans rear problem wasn't fixed just less hype due to a serious decrease in sales. Initially they were going to release a 3/4 ton with a diesel and I would have seriously considered it. High fuel costs killed the titan and armada along with any serious consideration at a 3/4 ton. Plus most truck owners aren't young kids and most full size truck owners stick to what their parents drove.

Last year I recall reading that toyota was considering getting out of the 1/2 game due to a low sales with high fuel costs. The titan was at the bottom of the mpg game in actual use for 1/2 tons plus their pricing wasn't the lowest and options weren't geared toward truck owners in their packages. The aimed their marketing at the same crowd as xterra owners.

ON another note, comparing stock to stock the titan was probably the fastest light to light, definetly on the highway, but that's not what a truck is made for. If gm didn't have the full throttle delay in their design I think it might be the quickest.

 

[Raw Dodge]

Absolutely correct, it's low to mid rpm that counts in a truck engine, not peak numbers.

You are right,however it is also important that a gasoline engine be able to carry a good amount of power into the mid range and higher rpms.If it doesnt,you will have trouble on hills,when you dont have enough power to get enough rpm to get into the next gear.Perfect example is the 87-95 GM TBI injected engines,they had great low end,but nothing above 3500RPM,just noise.They didnt tow well with any hills at all,as the couldnt maintain enough rpm on hills.Later Vortec engines,carried the power another 1000RPM higher or more,spreading the shift points up with road speed,making towing performance improvements that were bigger than the hp increase would suggest....

 

[flusher]

The Ford 6.8L V-10 would be my first choice but in the years you mentioned the tranny is not as heavy built as the Torque Shift tranny that went in the gas trucks as 2005 models and later.

The only option for a GM is the 8.1 with a Allison or maybe a 454 but the 6.0 is a dog. The main issue with the 454 again is the tranny.

As for Dodge they made a 7.0L V-10 for a few years around that time. They are few and far between but a good engine. I would also consider a 360. The 5.7 Hemi sounds impressive but has no place in a truck so stay away. The main issue with any Dodge is the tranny if its a auto.

Chris

The Dodge V10 bit the dust after the 2003 model year. So if I want a 2004 or later Ram 2500 or 3500 with a gas engine, the 5.7L hemi is my only choice.

So, educate me on that hemi. Not a good truck engine? Why? Poor low end torque? If so, can that hemi be tuned to have a better power band for towing? What's involved in doing that?

 

[Dmace]

So, educate me on that hemi. Not a good truck engine? Why? Poor low end torque? If so, can that hemi be tuned to have a better power band for towing? What's involved in doing that?

Asking DiamondPilot if the HEMI is a good engine is like asking Bill Gates if Apple's Mac computers are good...

There is nothing wrong with the HEMI engine, in fact it has proven itself as one of the most reliable engines ever put in a truck since it's start in 2003. It has typically been the most powerful engine compared to the competition and makes more power per cubic inch then almost any normally aspirated engine made.
People like to say that it does not have the low rpm power that the others do but have nothing to prove it. Dodge puts it's engine dyno right on the site, nothing to hide:

Good power low in the rpms is good but not necessary if you have the right gearing. The HEMI's power is so linear that it just does not stop pulling until you let off, there is no drop in power like some larger V8's. The SuperChips Programmer seems to be the favorite among Ram owners for it's linear power increase and ability to run 87 octane vs the manufacturer's recommendation of 89 octane minimum.

Drive one and you will see, just make sure it is setup for what you want. If you are looking for a towing truck, make sure it has the tow package and low rear end gearing. My 2003 Ram 1500 HEMI (345hp/375LB.FT.) tow package included 7-pin connector, tow mirrors, transmission oil cooler, brake fluid cooler, and lower rear end gearing (3.92). As far as the "The main issue with any Dodge is the tranny if its a auto." comment, that is moot too. They had tranny problems in the early 90's but have a stout tranny now that rivals most. The 5-speed auto used in the HEMI trucks is the same basic tranny used in the Diesel Rams with changes in gear ratios, mount plate and 2nd gear prime. It too has proven it's reliability over the past decade.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The Hemi is a great engine. I never said it was not. I just said it was not a good truck engine. I had one in my 2500 4x4. It was about the only thing that did not break. The issue with the Hemi is it where it makes its power. I would love to have a 6.2 Hemi sitting in a Challenger parked in my garage.

Most truck engines make 80% of the torque below 2000 rpm's. The Hemi does not. It makes about 63% at 2000 rpm's. That is the only issue. The engine was made to run at high rpm's and it does a great job at that. As you can see by the chart supplied it does not make 80% until it gets to 2,700 rpm's.

I really had no complaints with my Hemi Engine. It did a decent job at pulling but was not even in the same league with the V-10 Ford or the 8.1 GM. The Hemi is a better choice when comparing it to the 6.0 GM or the 5.4 Ford, the only other gas offerings in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.

As for the tranny's I had 2 crap out before 70K so how can you say its not still a issue? Funny how you see a good majority of the 5 year old 3/4 and 1 ton Dodge trucks with a stick while the GM and Ford trucks have the majority backed by automatic trannys.

Chris

 

[flusher]

Asking DiamondPilot if the HEMI is a good engine is like asking Bill Gates if Apple's Mac computers are good...

There is nothing wrong with the HEMI engine, in fact it has proven itself as one of the most reliable engines ever put in a truck since it's start in 2003. It has typically been the most powerful engine compared to the competition and makes more power per cubic inch then almost any normally aspirated engine made.
People like to say that it does not have the low rpm power that the others do but have nothing to prove it. Dodge puts it's engine dyno right on the site, nothing to hide:

Good power low in the rpms is good but not necessary if you have the right gearing. The HEMI's power is so linear that it just does not stop pulling until you let off, there is no drop in power like some larger V8's. The SuperChips Programmer seems to be the favorite among Ram owners for it's linear power increase and ability to run 87 octane vs the manufacturer's recommendation of 89 octane minimum.

Drive one and you will see, just make sure it is setup for what you want. If you are looking for a towing truck, make sure it has the tow package and low rear end gearing. My 2003 Ram 1500 HEMI (345hp/375LB.FT.) tow package included 7-pin connector, tow mirrors, transmission oil cooler, brake fluid cooler, and lower rear end gearing (3.92). As far as the "The main issue with any Dodge is the tranny if its a auto." comment, that is moot too. They had tranny problems in the early 90's but have a stout tranny now that rivals most. The 5-speed auto used in the HEMI trucks is the same basic tranny used in the Diesel Rams with changes in gear ratios, mount plate and 2nd gear prime. It too has proven it's reliability over the past decade.

Thanks for the good info. I've been looking for a power band chart for the 5.7L hemi--googled but couldn't find it. Thanks again.

 

[flusher]

The Hemi is a great engine. I never said it was not. I just said it was not a good truck engine. I had one in my 2500 4x4. It was about the only thing that did not break. The issue with the Hemi is it where it makes its power. I would love to have a 6.2 Hemi sitting in a Challenger parked in my garage.

Most truck engines make 80% of the torque below 2000 rpm's. The Hemi does not. It makes about 63% at 2000 rpm's. That is the only issue. The engine was made to run at high rpm's and it does a great job at that. As you can see by the chart supplied it does not make 80% until it gets to 2,700 rpm's.

I really had no complaints with my Hemi Engine. It did a decent job at pulling but was not even in the same league with the V-10 Ford or the 8.1 GM. The Hemi is a better choice when comparing it to the 6.0 GM or the 5.4 Ford, the only other gas offerings in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.

As for the tranny's I had 2 crap out before 70K so how can you say its not still a issue? Funny how you see a good majority of the 5 year old 3/4 and 1 ton Dodge trucks with a stick while the GM and Ford trucks have the majority backed by automatic trannys.

Chris

Thanks for the clarification. It's very helpful. My feeling is that with my modest towing demands, getting 80% of rated torque at 2700 rpm doesn't seem too scary.

 

[Dmace]

getting 80% of rated torque at 2700 rpm doesn't seem too scary.

Exactly, as long as the vehicle is geared for it the rpms mean nothing. Plus that 65% of torque made below 2000 rpms is typically more then 80% of the others since it typically makes more peak torque. That dyno chart is right from Dodge.com

 

[FlaDon]

The difference in a truck engine and the Hemi is that a truck engine will have a sharp torque rise and then a flat curve. The Hemi doesn't, it's a good car engine though. An example is the 8.1 as used in the 4500 and 5500 series GM trucks. From 2000 RPM to 4000 RPM the torque curve is just about flat. Same as what you see in a Diesel just that the Diesels drop off sharply in both HP and torque above a certain lower RPM point.
GM's curves can be found at http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/images/mediumduty/techspecs/engine.pdf

 

[Reg]

I had a need to check the OM this weekend and found that in my truck, the 8.1/Ally/4.10 was rated 100 lbs more load towing than the same truck with the DM/Ally/3.73. Might explain why some of us don't mind the little extra fuel cost at the pump.

If that last 100 lbs matters... Kinda marginal situation, ain't it ?
I would rather have the 3.73s - and I do (-:
I would NOT want 4.10s for coast to coast trips - and I do those LOADED !
It isn't a LITTLE extra fuel co$t either, but you probably know that.