Using a tractor as a bulldozer

[YuriM]

Hi all!

I have a Kubota L4630 (47 hp) with FEL also from Kubota. I was wondering about whether I'd be able to use it as a bulldozer. There is a creek on my property that has burst its banks and is flooding a field. It is pretty shallow, at most 1 foot deep when the water is low. It burst its banks during high water, but after the water dropped, it is continuing to flow into the field, making the field unusable. I have been wondering if it would be possible to use the tractor to scoop/push some gravel from the old stream bed into the new, so as to simultaneously make the old stream bed deeper (and encourage water to go there) and block up the new stream bed.

My concerns are: would the loader bucket be able to handle it? It seems a lot flimsier than the buckets on bulldozers and it does not have any teeth. I have used it to dig up topsoil before, but that's a lot softer than gravel. Should I get teeth or a heavier duty bucket?

Anything else I should know about if I'm looking to attempt this? By the way, I'm not doing this until at least April. The stream currently has about 4" of ice on it

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited to add:
I will not be uprooting any trees.

 

[JoeinTX]

Yuri, I think some pics or something would help us here on the net to answer your question.

My initial response is that you aren't really using your rig as a bulldozer in the heavy duty sense..........you're just going to move some bed material to redirect the creek's flow. I don't hear anything wrong with that.

Do you have a rear blade or box blade to use in concert with the loader?

 

[Topstrap]

A piece of equipment will do more than it was intentionally designed for but it's up to the operator to learn it's upper limits. A good operator can finesse his equipment and extend it's capabilities but when doing that he's also very careful as to what can possibly go wrong by trying to go beyond its maximum ability.

With what you have planned, be sure to have a backup plan to pull it back out. Amazing how fast things turn bad when down around creek beds and water.

Have fun,

Merry Christmas

Topstrap

 

[20 20]

1st comparing a dozer to a tractor is like comparing an airplane to a kite, would you fly on a kite . I'm not saying you can't do what you want, just be carefull and take baby steps. How much dirt are you planning on moving? What is the soil like? You wrote there are no rootes, but what about other barriers you might encounter?

 

[jpm]

a excavator would be a much better tool. you would be on safe dry land instead of in a wet river bed. things can go bad real fast with water

 

[bandit99]

Boy here in Maine you would be in huge trouble if anyone dropped a dime on you for disturbing the stream bed w/o the proper permits. I doubt if you could get permission. Don't think someone won't call to report you.

 

[manganos]

Rent the dozer and keep your Bota' as your tractor. I learned early on in the game that tractors are NOT dozers

 

[nue2farm]

I have a L3130 and have used it as you propose to use yours. Put a blade on the back to counter balance it a little. Run your bucket at a shallow angle until its full. You can adjust the load to what you and the tractor are comfortable with. Take it slow and easy and good luck.

 

[jpm1]

No way would I put my wheel tractor in a creek bed. Rent a dozer or excavator for that job. Water can really play havic on seals in the tranny and front end. Dozers and excavators are made for exterme conditions, and I realize its a lot of money spent but. . . . the job will go quicker and the results will probably be a lot better in the end and best of all, you don't have to do the maintainence on the machine when your done. Just a little cleaning and greasing.
Becareful about treading through a creek cause the DEC frowns on stuff like that. I'de do a lot of inquiring before I commit to anything. Could save you a lot of head aches in the long run. Good Luck. . .John

 

[BruceWard]

An excavator or backhoe would be much better than a dozer for the job.

I am concerned that your tractor may not have enough traction to work in the stream bed.

 

[Tim D]

Here in Missouri, the DNR frowns on doing any work in a creek bed without first contacting them to get the OK. If this creek is all small gravel, I would not see you having a problem moving the rock to where you want it. Moving loose rock with loader bucket should be easier on loader and tractor than digging in compacted dirt. If this creek has a lot of sand and silt dirt, I would be very careful about burying your tractor up to the casting. There is also a good chance that after you have moved your rock, the creek might just move the rock on out into your field.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Need permit in Michigan, as well.

 

[SunnyJim]

How wide is the creek? Biggest concern is getting stuck, trust me. I have several large ditches that I have had to break up material that was damming them. Mine are blocked with dirt and vegetation, not stone or rocks. I have found it much safer to drive to the edge of the bank rotate my bucket so the edge is 90 degrees to the bottom of the ditch. I drop it as deep as I can and drag as much material back with me as I can. Better option would be a backhoe since you can dig deeper and from further away. If you drive into the creek and scoop up a bunch of material the front end will just sink from all the weight and soft water logged soil. Back dragging is allot safer.

 

[YuriM]

Thanks all for the tips! So I'm split between the people telling me to rent a dozer/backhoe, and people telling me try using the tractor. I'm attaching pictures that show where I'm having the problem, though these were taken at high water. Normal flow is nowhere near this. Hopefully that makes it easier to see the scale of the project.

Getting the tractor stuck is what worries me most of all -- I've done that before and it was no fun. The creek bed is almost fully gravel. There's just a little sand, and of course where it's overflowing is silt as gravel hasn't been able to build up yet. I don't really know how deep the gravel is.

I did do my homework about required permits. This is an unprotected stream as far as the state is concerned. The only way I would need a permit is if I was working on more than 200 feet of it. At most, I'm going to be working on 120-150 feet. The county's water and environmental is also pretty much my next door neighbor (lives a mile down the road) and I've hashed it out with him. So yes, it is a valid concern, but I have taken care of it already.

So the question remains: Use the tractor until it gets stuck and then bring in the dozer to pull it out? Or do away with the stress and aggravation of that in the first place and rent the dozer?

 

[BobRip]

Learn to use recover tools (comealong, winch, high lift jack, etc.) I have a DVD called "Getting Unstuck". Very helpful.

 

[Topstrap]

Looking more like mini excavator time to me after the pictures. Then you can stay up out of the mess. Easier to rechannel the water, then once you have it flowing where you want it then smooth out the area you wanted to fill in without water flowing thru your workplace. But looks like a stream like that after a few heavy rains is going to alway be meandering around so it'll prob be a job that will keep you busy every couple of years.

Topstrap

 

[deere5105]

I would probably try first with what I had to work with. To start with you may want to keep yourself positioned so that if necessary you can use your bucket to help push your way out if things get soft. Is there not a way to get material from somewhere besides in the creek to place in the stream to stop it? You might even be able to get a load of rock brought in and use the tractor to transport it to where it is needed. You could begin putting it into the area needed and work your way across to the other side. This would also help compact the new material. As others have warned, things happen quick around sand/water. I have been stuck only twice with my tractor and both times were in a stream bed trying to slope the sides. Good luck.

 

[sellercreek]

Looks like it would be easy to do with the tractor and FEL when the water is down. Is the tractor 4wd?

BTW, you can get yourself unstuck by using the FEL in most cases. You can either push backwards or pull forward enough to get unstuck. To push back, dump the bucket with it on the ground in front of you, then lift the tractor off the ground while curling the bucket upward. It will push you straight back. Repeat as necessary until you get on solid ground.

 

[tawilson]

If you have a blade or rake you might want to try dragging the material where you want it. I would definitely give it a try with what I had on hand.

 

[YuriM]

Looks like it would be easy to do with the tractor and FEL when the water is down. Is the tractor 4wd?

BTW, you can get yourself unstuck by using the FEL in most cases. You can either push backwards or pull forward enough to get unstuck. To push back, dump the bucket with it on the ground in front of you, then lift the tractor off the ground while curling the bucket upward. It will push you straight back. Repeat as necessary until you get on solid ground.

Wish I'd thought of that last time I got stuck! I ended up using the FEL to pull front wheels up (I was axle-deep in mud) and then piled branches under the wheels until I had enough traction. The tractor is 4wd.

I understand that this is going to be a recurring problem, but I think regular maintenance to clear debris and so on would go a long way to prevent flooding. Right now, the stream has been neglected for at least 15 years (previous landowner retired to Florida and the house had been rented out for 10 years or so before we moved in in 2005; no one did any maintenance during all of that time).

Thanks again for all the input!