Preferred gas engines for 1 ton pickups

[Steve C]

Why in the world would you compare a Ford V10 or huge GM 8.1 liter to the 5.7 liter HEMI? Obviously, if he was looking for a towing truck that was gas powered then I would recommend those engines too but he said "My feeling is that with my modest towing demands, getting 80% of rated torque at 2700 rpm doesn't seem too scary." Sure those engines make good torque down low, they had better with that much displacement. If you really need that much low end torque for moderate towing demands then go for it, but you will pay dearly at the pump. Even unloaded you will be lucky to see 10mpg out of those engines.


The HEMI makes 325lb.ft. at 2800rpms, like a whopping 800rpms is really going to be that noticeable.
The pathetic part is at about 2800rpms just as you get the load moving the GM 6.0l levels out at about 340-350lb.ft where the HEMI is making the same torque and just keeps pulling all the way to 375lb.ft. instead of "leveling out".
All these engines make good truck engines, get the job done and do it well including the HEMI. It's all a matter of preference...

The difference between 325 ft/lbs of torque at 2,000 rpm and 225 ft lbs of torque at 2,000 rpm/325@2800 rpm is huge if you ever tow a load on a road that isn't perfectly flat and without a tail wind.

If you spend any time towing 8 or 9 thousand pounds with each of these engines the difference will be perfectly clear. The hemi is a great sports car or hot rod engine. As a truck engine that is designed to do truck things it isn't so great. It will work but it is going to put the transmission through a world of hurt downshifting and locking/unlocking the torque converter. It would be the engine of my choice if I was going to tow at 85 to 90 mph.

As long as the truck is empty it is going to be a hoot.

And most people drive trucks empty, smart marketing.. Truck manufactures have figured out that most people with high incomes who can afford the real fancy profitable trucks live in large cities and don't actually use trucks as trucks. That is why you see so many short bed pick ups sitting on 20 or 22 inch rims. They are a fashion statement.

I wish my truck had a 9 or 10 foot bed.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The difference between 325 ft/lbs of torque at 2,000 rpm and 225 ft lbs of torque at 2,000 rpm/325@2800 rpm is huge if you ever tow a load on a road that isn't perfectly flat and without a tail wind.

If you spend any time towing 8 or 9 thousand pounds with each of these engines the difference will be perfectly clear. The hemi is a great sports car or hot rod engine. As a truck engine that is designed to do truck things it isn't so great. It will work but it is going to put the transmission through a world of hurt downshifting and locking/unlocking the torque converter. It would be the engine of my choice if I was going to tow at 85 to 90 mph.

As long as the truck is empty it is going to be a hoot.

And most people drive trucks empty, smart marketing.. Truck manufactures have figured out that most people with high incomes who can afford the real fancy profitable trucks live in large cities and don't actually use trucks as trucks. That is why you see so many short bed pick ups sitting on 20 or 22 inch rims. They are a fashion statement.

I wish my truck had a 9 or 10 foot bed.

Ding Ding Ding!


We have a winner.

Your statement about killing the tranny is what my neighbor figured out for me back in my 2500 Hemi days. He is a math/engineer type who now owns a landscape company and mows lawns for a living. I could not keep a tranny in the thing pulling a 10K load and less. Went though 2 rebuilds in under 70K. I had pulled the same load with a 2002 F-150 powered with a 5.4L engine and had no issues.

As for the bed thing I am by no means a city slicker but have only owned a few long bed trucks. The simple fact is I like a short bed with a crew or extended cab so it will still fit in my heated garage. There is no way I am going out and scraping ice and snow, running in through the rain, or warming up a truck at 4:30 in the morning when I head to work when I have a attached heated garage.

Chris

 

[Steve C]

Ding Ding Ding!


We have a winner.

Your statement about killing the tranny is what my neighbor figured out for me back in my 2500 Hemi days. He is a math/engineer type who now owns a landscape company and mows lawns for a living. I could not keep a tranny in the thing pulling a 10K load and less. Went though 2 rebuilds in under 70K. I had pulled the same load with a 2002 F-150 powered with a 5.4L engine and had no issues.

As for the bed thing I am by no means a city slicker but have only owned a few long bed trucks. The simple fact is I like a short bed with a crew or extended cab so it will still fit in my heated garage. There is no way I am going out and scraping ice and snow, running in through the rain, or warming up a truck at 4:30 in the morning when I head to work when I have a attached heated garage.

Chris

From what I have read in your previous posts you uses your trucks as a tow vehicle so the actual cargo room isn't that important. Perhaps all those marketing people know who their market is.

I like the ability to put a lot of stuff back there. The difference between a 6 1/2 foot bed and an 8 foot bed is much more than one would imagine. The wheel wells take up the same amount of space in either one. The additional length is full width and full heigth. The slightly longer bed gives you about 50% more space to put stuff.

I am unemployed so heading to work in the morning at 4:30 out of a heated garage isn't a priority.

When I was working I drove my 95 Escort station wagon. It was a 85 mile round trip commute so I only drove the truck when I needed to haul something, and I always tried to haul a full load.

 

[sld]

I thought this thread died when I mentioned the shape of the torque curve is very important.

The "weak" Ford Triton engines only put down 80 percent of their torque at a measly 1000 rpm's. Some would think that the truck that advertises the most peak hp would sell the most but they don't.

It is very noticeable when driving what engine is putting the torque down at low rpms.

Think of it this way. Horsepower is just a measure of where in the rpm range your are making your torque. To get high peak hp numbers relative to cubic inches, you have to move your peak torque up the rpm ladder. An engine set up to make low end torque will usually have a flat torque curve. An engine set up to make good peak numbers will not. The former belong in trucks and latter in cars.

I am not a Dodge fan but the hemi is a great engine overall. Dodge would've been better off to use cam profiles that generate the torque lower and sacrifice the peak numbers. New engines are not that much different in technology. Ford could probably make a version of the 5.4 that matches the hemi in peak numbers but the trade off doesn't work in heavy load use.

Meanwhile I am digging my V10 with tunes from 5 Star. It makes my 7000 lb truck feel pretty sporty and still gets 14-15 mpg empty on the highway.

 

[FlaDon]

Ding Ding Ding!


We have a winner.

Your statement about killing the tranny is what my neighbor figured out for me back in my 2500 Hemi days. He is a math/engineer type who now owns a landscape company and mows lawns for a living. I could not keep a tranny in the thing pulling a 10K load and less. Went though 2 rebuilds in under 70K. I had pulled the same load with a 2002 F-150 powered with a 5.4L engine and had no issues.

As for the bed thing I am by no means a city slicker but have only owned a few long bed trucks. The simple fact is I like a short bed with a crew or extended cab so it will still fit in my heated garage. There is no way I am going out and scraping ice and snow, running in through the rain, or warming up a truck at 4:30 in the morning when I head to work when I have a attached heated garage.

Chris

Now Chris, that just means you need a bigger garage. My 3500 ext cab dually fits in our garage in Ohio without a problem. Even clears the WD hitch.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Now Chris, that just means you need a bigger garage. My 3500 ext cab dually fits in our garage in Ohio without a problem. Even clears the WD hitch.

Trust me, I have thought about it. My wife said for me to just park in the barn. Heck no, its cold out there.

Maybe I will build on to the garage. Mine is only 20' deep. My dad built one that is 28' deep and that makes all the difference in the world.

Chris

 

[Steve C]

Trust me, I have thought about it. My wife said for me to just park in the barn. Heck no, its cold out there.

Maybe I will build on to the garage. Mine is only 20' deep. My dad built one that is 28' deep and that makes all the difference in the world.

Chris

I had a 28' x 28' two car garage attached to a house five houses ago. It spoiled me. Every attached garage I have had since seem very inadequate

The extra depth is very easy to get used to.

 

[Egon]

You want "The Best Gas Engine" for a P/U?

Get yourself a 440 block, install the right cam, put on a four barrel and be happy.

 

[WilliamBos]

You want "The Best Gas Engine" for a P/U?

Get yourself a 440 block, install the right cam, put on a four barrel and be happy.

EWWWWWW - CARB!!!!!! (Do not forget the ignition spray for each time it rains, or you drive through a puddle.

7.0L LS is just around the corner. That will be sweet!!

 

[FlaDon]

EWWWWWW - CARB!!!!!! (Do not forget the ignition spray for each time it rains, or you drive through a puddle.

7.0L LS is just around the corner. That will be sweet!!

And don't forget a few spare ballast resistors in the glove box for when they get wet running thru the water puddles. Replaced way too many of them on a 1976 Dodge D100 pickup and 1977 Dodge Grand Monaco wagons equipted with 318, 360, and 440s. The 360 and 440 wagons were police package units.