Welding - I want to learn ..need advice.

[Renze]

When you want to go serious welding - dont bother with a hobby MIG. My brother bought a 160/180 amp, 35% duty cycle welder 5 years ago for 700 euro. http://www.ticoweld.com/Tico EN/mig en/mig prod en/pro-migmag-migc-m160-180-en.htm I told him 250A was minimum for our farm welding, but he insisted on having the option to run it on 160A/220V at his house in town.
Tonight i brouht it to the repairman again. its the second time in 2 years. Last time was a 350 Euro repair bill. If this time is the same, it will be as expensive as the 350A professional welder (60% duty cycle, biiiig copper spools) i ordered tonight, which i expect, doesnt see back the repair shop i bought it, in the coming 10 years. http://www.ticoweld.com/Tico EN/mig en/mig prod en/pro-migmag-migc-m350C-en.htm When i bought a decent welder from the beginning, the 350A would have been just as expensive as the purchase plus 2 major repairs of 5 years getting by with a light hobby machine.

oh, dont buy anything with aluminium spools: when it corrodes, the spools wont deliver anymore. welders with aluminium spools fade away even when stored on the shelf and never used, just because the aluminium spool wires oxidize.

 

[davch00]

That welder would be fine for most projects. I have a linclon 110v wire welder and when I weld something I will guarantee that it will hold just as well as anyone else's weld with what ever welder they chose. (within reason) And that from sheet metal all the way up to over 1" thick stuff. (I weld everyday at work...and some of the stuff we weld could kill someone if it breaks) As far as learning how I would say find a friend to teach you the basics and then practice. When you weld with thicker metal with smaller welders it helps alot to grind a "v" on the edge, preheat a little and make 3 (or more) passes instead of one big one

 

[bobodu]

That's just the kind of post that scares the heck outta me...Weekend Joe goes to Lowes and buys a crappy little MIG...then gets killed when a weld fails because he read somewhere that these things are capable of heavy welds. Sure,I can build a house with straight pins......

 

[Renze]

That's just the kind of post that scares the heck outta me...Weekend Joe goes to Lowes and buys a crappy little MIG...then gets killed when a weld fails because he read somewhere that these things are capable of heavy welds. Sure,I can build a house with straight pins......

Making clean looking MIG welds is easy for the beginner... But the problem with MIG is that looks are deceiving: A typical beginners mistake is making a clean looking weld (vertical, top to bottom) with no penetration, as you're welding on the droplet of molten steel you just created, instead of into the base material... a.k.a sticky welding...

Especially for farm use, when steel isnt allways bright and clean, i'd recommend a rod welder. Penetration guaranteed, less sensitive to fluctuations in the arc voltage (which you get with single phase machines with cheap equalisers) and IMHO better lifespan than a cheap MIG.

Cheap MIG welders are for cosmetic welding, like automobile bodywork. If you dont want to spend too much, and do construction welding, buy a rod welder.
If you do want MIG, get at least a decent machine of 250A or higher.


Oh by the way, about the broken welder i mentioned in my previous post: The repairman said that the spool was burned and it would cost me 275 Euro... So be it, it will be repaired and right after that, i'll deliver to my brothers home garage (where this type of welder belongs)
Next week friday i will get my brand new 350A mig... waiting on the new welder is even more exciting than my birthday next month...

 

[roamrdb]

That welder would be fine for most projects. I have a linclon 110v wire welder and when I weld something I will guarantee that it will hold just as well as anyone else's weld with what ever welder they chose. (within reason) And that from sheet metal all the way up to over 1" thick stuff. (I weld everyday at work...and some of the stuff we weld could kill someone if it breaks) As far as learning how I would say find a friend to teach you the basics and then practice. When you weld with thicker metal with smaller welders it helps alot to grind a "v" on the edge, preheat a little and make 3 (or more) passes instead of one big one

surely you meant your post as some kind of joke......if you are serious, please show your post to your employer. if this is a serious post, then you have no idea at all what you are talking about. tell us what it is that you are "welding" everyday at work. for the life of me, i cannot understand what compels people to spout off information when they do not have the slightest clue what they are talking about. and no matter how many "friends" show you, there is absolutely no substitute for properly learning the basics, the real basics. you have certainly proven that with your post.

 

[Jaylegger]

What started as a decent thread seems to have morphed into an exercise of posturing and my welding is bigger than your welder type showmanship. Perhaps a few definitions of what's "real" or "serious" and what is not to accompany a few posts would be helpful. It would appear that some believe if anyone buys and uses anything under a 250a welder then he's nothing but a joke or something. Let's get a firm grip on reality here, from what I gather many here looking for advice are hobby type welders using the welder as a tool to help them around their home/shop or very small private farms and not for heavy duty industrial use. I have very little experience with welders but I'm guessing it's safe to say that any size welder is a useful tool when used within it's intended operating parameters and equally true that each can also be used in an inappropriate and unsafe manner outside of it's intended applications. It would be helpful if those here with experience and formal training observe unsafe practices outlined in a post to identify the unsafe practice then perhaps follow that up with safer and/or more effective procedures.

Also with respect to welders purchased and used in non-industrial applications I've read more than a few times in this thread of "decent" and "cheap" with absolutely no reference to what the definition of "decent" or "cheap" is. Anyone care to enlighten us neophytes what is cheap and what is decent and why? For instance is a 180a 250v lincoln cheap and indecent for it's intended use, what about a 140a 120v Lincoln, is that cheap and indecent for it's designed use, can either be used for "serious" welding or should they be assigned purely for trivial welding?

 

[Bill_C]

Good comments jaylegger.

Let's look at a "140 amp" 110 volt welder. Realistically, it will only put out about 90 amps at a usable welding voltage (there was an extensive thread on weldingweb.com that had the numbers, complete with voltage/current readings on test equipment). They showed this welder CAN do useful, structurally sound welding on mild steel 3/16 thick or less. 1/4 inch is marginal but possible with preheat, clean steel, and good technique. Anything thicker will yield a cold lap--the steel soaks off heat faster than the welder can produce it, leaving a weld that looks good but has poor fusion. But within its limits, a 110 volt welder works great and can offer the advantage of portability, especially when used with flux-core wire in the case of a wire feed. Certainly for thin sheet metal such as automotive work, a 110 volt wire feed (with smaller diameter solid wire and proper shielding gas) would be just the ticket.

A bigger home wire feed would be something like the Hobart Handler 175, which runs off 220 volts. Most anything around the house or a hobbiest's shop would fall within its capabilities in my opinion. Certainly I would not claim this is a production unit but 3/8 inch or thicker materials can be done within reason with multi-pass. Again, though, I don't think we're welding 2 inch thick steel plate at home. Advanced welders will recognize that for these home/hobby wire feeds, they're going to be short-arc. The big home units like the Hobart Ironman 250 *might* run spray transfer but the gun probably would melt!

The Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstones" or the Miller Thunderbolts are great stick welders for the home/hobby/farmer as well. Again, not suited for production work but for anything between 1/8 inch thick and 1 inch thick, within the limits of their duty cycle they're fine.

I have said many times, there's no "one size fits all" welder; everyone has different needs. I weld a lot of various stuff in differing situations around the house, so I have all 3 of these welders (a 110 volt wire-feed running flux core, the HH175 with solid wire and CO2 gas, and a Lincoln Tombstone).

"Decent" versus "cheap" may be difficult to quantify. The big name brands (Lincoln, Miller/Hobart) typically are considered "decent" because they meet their published specifications, they perform adequately, and their quality seems acceptable (few breakdowns, long product life). The Harbor Freight units seem to fall into the "cheap" typically because they may not perform adequately or their products may not hold up well. Some HF stuff has worked well for me, so I'm not bashing HF as a brand, but their welders do not seem to be made as well as the name brands.

Again, it's naive to think a 110 volt wire-feed welder can weld 1 inch thick structural steel. But it's also naive to dismiss them as toys.

 

[davch00]

It seems I struck a nerve or two so I will explain a little. About what I weld at work...I build barges, granted we use bigger welders than 110v we do have the possibility of someone getting hurt or killed if certain welds break. I should have said to get a friend that knows how to weld to show you. Sorry I assumed that would be understood...learning from someone that knows how to weld is would be pretty much the same as taking a class. As far as anyone can lay down a pretty bead, thats simply not true, I have seen many people that can't. For those that think anyone can give that anyone a wire welder and have them run a good looking uphill vertical or overhead weld on the first try,

About being naive on welding 1" steel with a 110v welder, I'm not saying that I would want to do it everyday but it can be done,if done properly.

 

[dcyrilc]

Good comments jaylegger.

Let's look at a "140 amp" 110 volt welder. Realistically, it will only put out about 90 amps at a usable welding voltage (there was an extensive thread on weldingweb.com that had the numbers, complete with voltage/current readings on test equipment). They showed this welder CAN do useful, structurally sound welding on mild steel 3/16 thick or less. 1/4 inch is marginal but possible with preheat, clean steel, and good technique. Anything thicker will yield a cold lap--the steel soaks off heat faster than the welder can produce it, leaving a weld that looks good but has poor fusion. But within its limits, a 110 volt welder works great and can offer the advantage of portability, especially when used with flux-core wire in the case of a wire feed. Certainly for thin sheet metal such as automotive work, a 110 volt wire feed (with smaller diameter solid wire and proper shielding gas) would be just the ticket.

A bigger home wire feed would be something like the Hobart Handler 175, which runs off 220 volts. Most anything around the house or a hobbiest's shop would fall within its capabilities in my opinion. Certainly I would not claim this is a production unit but 3/8 inch or thicker materials can be done within reason with multi-pass. Again, though, I don't think we're welding 2 inch thick steel plate at home. Advanced welders will recognize that for these home/hobby wire feeds, they're going to be short-arc. The big home units like the Hobart Ironman 250 *might* run spray transfer but the gun probably would melt!

The Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstones" or the Miller Thunderbolts are great stick welders for the home/hobby/farmer as well. Again, not suited for production work but for anything between 1/8 inch thick and 1 inch thick, within the limits of their duty cycle they're fine.

I have said many times, there's no "one size fits all" welder; everyone has different needs. I weld a lot of various stuff in differing situations around the house, so I have all 3 of these welders (a 110 volt wire-feed running flux core, the HH175 with solid wire and CO2 gas, and a Lincoln Tombstone).

"Decent" versus "cheap" may be difficult to quantify. The big name brands (Lincoln, Miller/Hobart) typically are considered "decent" because they meet their published specifications, they perform adequately, and their quality seems acceptable (few breakdowns, long product life). The Harbor Freight units seem to fall into the "cheap" typically because they may not perform adequately or their products may not hold up well. Some HF stuff has worked well for me, so I'm not bashing HF as a brand, but their welders do not seem to be made as well as the name brands.

Again, it's naive to think a 110 volt wire-feed welder can weld 1 inch thick structural steel. But it's also naive to dismiss them as toys.

I would have to agree with what you have said here. I also agree that "Decent" versus "cheap" is difficult to quantify. For me, I typically look at the quality of the machine to continue to perform within its specifications over time as an indicator of its quality. Following that, I look at what level of usage I expect to have for the piece of equipment. I often will not spend the money for higher quality of equipment if I only expect to use it once or twice a year. On the other hand, if I expect to use it daily or weekly, I will usually spend the extra money to purchase a known quality name brand.

As you pointed out, a person needs to aslo evaluate what they expect to be welding. Last week I just had a 1/4" split washer welded onto a piece of 12 guage steel as an anchor point for a spring. This would have been nearly impossible even for the most experianced welder to do with a stick welder as it was in an inside corner of the assembly. The mig did a beautiful job. It falls into the catagory of using the right tool for the right job.

As I see it, each person will need to evaluate for themselves, the degree of quality and size of machine to fit their particular needs. There is no one-size-fits-all.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Soundguy]

Posturing? I see people being cautious about comments stating you won't have any problems welding 1" steel with a 110v mig... that's a very decieving post on the surface. I guess if you v groove it down to 3/16 at the point and then spend 2 hours and a entire roll of wire to make sure all the passes tie in and penetrate.. then yeah.. you can glue some 1" together... not my idea of a good time. when a 235a ac stick welder will hit that thing half way thru, for sure on each side of the metal...

soundguy

What started as a decent thread seems to have morphed into an exercise of posturing and my welding is bigger than your welder type showmanship. Perhaps a few definitions of what's "real" or "serious" and what is not to accompany a few posts would be helpful. It would appear that some believe if anyone buys and uses anything under a 250a welder then he's nothing but a joke or something. Let's get a firm grip on reality here, from what I gather many here looking for advice are hobby type welders using the welder as a tool to help them around their home/shop or very small private farms and not for heavy duty industrial use. I have very little experience with welders but I'm guessing it's safe to say that any size welder is a useful tool when used within it's intended operating parameters and equally true that each can also be used in an inappropriate and unsafe manner outside of it's intended applications. It would be helpful if those here with experience and formal training observe unsafe practices outlined in a post to identify the unsafe practice then perhaps follow that up with safer and/or more effective procedures.

Also with respect to welders purchased and used in non-industrial applications I've read more than a few times in this thread of "decent" and "cheap" with absolutely no reference to what the definition of "decent" or "cheap" is. Anyone care to enlighten us neophytes what is cheap and what is decent and why? For instance is a 180a 250v lincoln cheap and indecent for it's intended use, what about a 140a 120v Lincoln, is that cheap and indecent for it's designed use, can either be used for "serious" welding or should they be assigned purely for trivial welding?