Options instead of PRINCE PTO pump

dourobob · Dec 15, 2009

Hi Folks

I have been reading voraciously over the past few weeks and recently came across a post where a person used a hydraulic pump on the PTO of their tractor that they claimed was much less expensive than a comparable Prince PTO Hydraulic Pump.

In my project I am wanting to convert a rear PTO snowblower to a FEL mounted blower and I have had some great advice for many folks here in this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/157884-how-do-i-make-3-a.html.

It seems I need a pump with 20+GPM at 540 RPM with 2200 PSI

The advice in the discussion noted above also included the following suggestion for an appropriate pump, motor and tank combination:
______________________
Here's a pump and motor combo that is in the right neighborhood for your tractor PTO HP (35).

PTO pump https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

PTO spline shaft motor (allows you to use standard PTO drive shaft). https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Recommended reservoir size is 1 gal per 1 gpm. Running at around 21 gpm this 25 gal reservoir might be a good choice.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Total cost so far for pump, motor and tank is $965. You'll need hoses and fittings and steel to fabricate brackets to hook it all up. You're probably looking at something around $1200 to $1500.
______________________________________________

My challenge is to find a hydraulic pump and motor combination that will work just as well for less money.

Any ideas, suggestions, recommendations.

Thanks
Bob

kennyd · Dec 15, 2009

I do not believe you will do it for less, I also think the $1200-$1500 price is to low.

Just price some hose and connectors capable of handling 25 GPM...If it was cheap, everybody would do it!

skidsteer.ca · Dec 23, 2009

dourobob said:
Hi Folks

I have been reading voraciously over the past few weeks and recently came across a post where a person used a hydraulic pump on the PTO of their tractor that they claimed was much less expensive than a comparable Prince PTO Hydraulic Pump.

In my project I am wanting to convert a rear PTO snowblower to a FEL mounted blower and I have had some great advice for many folks here in this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/157884-how-do-i-make-3-a.html.

It seems I need a pump with 20+GPM at 540 RPM with 2200 PSI

The advice in the discussion noted above also included the following suggestion for an appropriate pump, motor and tank combination:
______________________
Here's a pump and motor combo that is in the right neighborhood for your tractor PTO HP (35).

PTO pump https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

PTO spline shaft motor (allows you to use standard PTO drive shaft). https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Recommended reservoir size is 1 gal per 1 gpm. Running at around 21 gpm this 25 gal reservoir might be a good choice.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Total cost so far for pump, motor and tank is $965. You'll need hoses and fittings and steel to fabricate brackets to hook it all up. You're probably looking at something around $1200 to $1500.
______________________________________________

My challenge is to find a hydraulic pump and motor combination that will work just as well for less money.

Any ideas, suggestions, recommendations.

Thanks
Bob

I don't know of any other North American manufacturers that would be less then Prince.
Unless you can source some used parts and depending on budget constraints actual savings that may on may not be a good option. New is always moreof course, but then youknow the parts are not worn out either. Almost have to pull them apart and look.

You might find something though. Keep digging.
Ken

boughtaJD · Dec 23, 2009

Chief makes a 21GPM PTO pump that baileynet has for $325. The same size prince pump goes for $495 so a there's a little savings.

Hydraulic Cylinder Components, Products

dourobob · Jan 6, 2010

boughtaJD said:
Chief makes a 21GPM PTO pump that baileynet has for $325. The same size prince pump goes for $495 so a there's a little savings.
Hydraulic Cylinder Components, Products

This is a very interesting piece of info and I did check out the link. On the web site it states "We are a wholesale supplier. As such, we sell only to recognized businesses with federal tax identification numbers. "
I sent an email regarding buying directly and shipping to Canada but no reply.

Has anyone had experience with CHIEF PTO Pumps?
How do they stack up to comparable PRINCE pumps?
Is this another "you get what you pay for" lesson in the making?

Is anyone able to identify another supplier of CHIEF PTO pumps in Canada or the USA?

Thanks
Bob

J_J · Jan 7, 2010

dourobob ,

Have you considered these pumps. Clutch pump. 12 v activated. 20 GPM @ 2200 psi.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738 &catname=hydraulic

How much HP do you have?

dourobob · Jan 7, 2010

J_J said:
dourobob ,
Have you considered these pumps. Clutch pump. 12 v activated. 20 GPM @ 2200 psi.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738 &catname=hydraulic
How much HP do you have?

Hi J_J
Thanks for the link - unfortunately the message was "Sorry ... that item: 9-1738 has been discontinued or is not offered on the web. Feel free to call 1-800-488-3407, if you would like more assistance."

I did look at a this one https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738&catname=hydraulic and this one https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738-P&catname=hydraulic

Once again I must display my hydraulic ignorance because I am not sure how this might work.
Will I still need a reservoir and a Hydraulic motor to run the snowblower mounted on my FEL?
Does the 12 V simply replce the PTO in powering the pump.

My tractor is 35 HP at the PTO.

Thanks for your comments
Bob

J_J · Jan 7, 2010

A 20 GPM pump @ 2200 psi. needs 30 HP to run it at max. Theoretically, you would need a 20 gal tank for the pump at min.

aczlan · Jan 7, 2010

dourobob said:
Hi J_J
Thanks for the link - unfortunately the message was "Sorry ... that item: 9-1738 has been discontinued or is not offered on the web. Feel free to call 1-800-488-3407, if you would like more assistance."

Try this link: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738

Aaron Z

kenstrac · Jan 7, 2010

I don't know how much you can do on your own,but if you can put the pump on the front of the engine,you would still have the use of the PTO.
Gear Pumps (High Performance Pumps)
Cast iron, High performance for severe duty applications, Pressure balanced, Similar in performance to Cross 50P, Commercial P330, Rexroth S20, Webster YD, Tyrone P16, Parker M and Cessna 25550 series. Pump flow ratings below at 100%; normal efficiencies 85-90%.

7/8'' Dia Straight Keyed Shaft x 1 5/16'' Long

GPM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PORT SIZE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PREVIEW BAILEY NO CU. IN. DISPL. @1800 RPM @3600 RPM MAX PSI IN OUT ROTATION MOUNTING SHIP WT. PRICE EACH

250-150 1.79 13.9 27.8 4000 SAE 20 SAE 12 CW 2-Bolt B (4'' Dia pilot) 29 $258.00
250-152 2.6 20.2 40.4 4000 SAE 20 SAE 12 CW 2-Bolt B (4'' Dia pilot) 32 $276.00 250-154 3.33 25.9 51.8 3625 SAE 20 SAE 12 CW 2-Bolt B (4'' Dia pilot) 34 $285.00

dourobob · Jan 7, 2010

aczlan said:
Try this link: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2252010706430743&item=9-1738
Aaron Z

Thank Aarons - that worked

J_J said:
A 20 GPM pump @ 2200 psi. needs 30 HP to run it at max. Theoretically, you would need a 20 gal tank for the pump at min.

Now J_J - again it is my serious lack of hydraulic knowledge that prompts the next questions.

If I have the pump as shown in the link above and a 20 to 25 gal reservoir
1 - how to I get 2000 rpm to the pump in order to get 2200 PSI? (on the Prince or Chiet PTO pumps they fit on the PTO and operate at 540 RPM)
2 - am I right that this pressure then has to be used to power a motor that will generate 25 to 30 HP in order to make my snow blower work

I really appreciate the patience of the experts in helping those of us who don't know.

Bob

J_J · Jan 8, 2010

You connect the pump and clutch up to your fan belts, if this is the pump you want. You could also connect up a pulley set up to run off the PTO. Use a 4 to 1 ratio. 540 rpm will turn he small pulley at 2160 rpm . Make sure the pump is turning in the right direction.

Mechanical efficiency from engine to pump is about 95 %, and pump to motor efficiency is about 85 %. So if the pump takes about 25 HP to run t, then the motor will develop about 21.25 HP.

kenstrac · Jan 8, 2010

First it would help if we knew what model tractor you have,the pump that was mentioned above to work would need a 21" pulley to drive it. Taking that into consideration plus the size of the pump you will need a considerable amount of room in the PTO area, I still think coming off the front of the engine crankshaft is a better alternative.

JoelD · Jan 8, 2010

Here was my set up.

The pump was 5-6 GPM, at around 1000 rpm.

Don't forget rpm, you'll be spinning at 540 or 1000 not sure your pto speed on your tractor, my kubota had three, 540, 1000 and 1500.

The last time I looked at surplus something like this was under $100.

Your problem is definately going to be the speed at which you can spin the pump, I'm sure that is probably one of the keys to a PTO pump, the much have gearing inside that spins the pump up to somewhere around 2000 rpm.

I only needed 3-5 GPM so I ran a 10 GPM pump at half it's rated speed.

As far as pressure that is regulated by the bypass valve in your valve body.
As long as you've got the HP to generate the pressure.

You'd need to go up from there.

Joel

J_J · Jan 8, 2010

dourobob,

How many PTO speeds do you have? if you have only have 540, you could use an 8 cu in pump to provide the 20 GPM's. If you had higher PTO rpm's, the pump displacement would be smaller. With a direct hook up to the PTO shaft, the pump will have to turn counter clockwise.

Gear ratio are just that, 4 to 1 could be any number of pulley sizes. 3 in on pump would require a 12 in pulley on PTO shaft, etc.

first option---driving a pump off the fan belts
second option----large pump driven directly off the PTO shaft, or pulleys.
third-------------a prince PTO pump matched to your PTO rpm.

Need tank, hoses, and a motor spool valve for variable control.

You might be able to connect the pump directly to the hyd motor, and when you activate the PTO, the pump and hyd motor start turning. You can regulate the hyd motor speed by the rpm on your tractor.

kenstrac · Jan 8, 2010

I would not change the 7" pulley off that pump.

Orebonder · Mar 25, 2021

dourobob said:
Hi Folks

I have been reading voraciously over the past few weeks and recently came across a post where a person used a hydraulic pump on the PTO of their tractor that they claimed was much less expensive than a comparable Prince PTO Hydraulic Pump.

In my project I am wanting to convert a rear PTO snowblower to a FEL mounted blower and I have had some great advice for many folks here in this thread Front-End Loader - How do I make a 3PH Blower work on a FEL.

It seems I need a pump with 20+GPM at 540 RPM with 2200 PSI

The advice in the discussion noted above also included the following suggestion for an appropriate pump, motor and tank combination:
______________________
Here's a pump and motor combo that is in the right neighborhood for your tractor PTO HP (35).

PTO pump https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

PTO spline shaft motor (allows you to use standard PTO drive shaft). https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Recommended reservoir size is 1 gal per 1 gpm. Running at around 21 gpm this 25 gal reservoir might be a good choice.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...name=hydraulic

Total cost so far for pump, motor and tank is $965. You'll need hoses and fittings and steel to fabricate brackets to hook it all up. You're probably looking at something around $1200 to $1500.
______________________________________________

My challenge is to find a hydraulic pump and motor combination that will work just as well for less money.

Any ideas, suggestions, recommendations.

Thanks
Bob

Hello...I just converted a rear mounted PTO operated snowblower to a FEL mounted, hydraulic operated unit. Where would be the best section here, to post it in.

agjones · Mar 27, 2021

Orebonder said:
Hello...I just converted a rear mounted PTO operated snowblower to a FEL mounted, hydraulic operated unit. Where would be the best section here, to post it in.

Right here in Hydraulics. On the Hydraulics forum page, look for Post Thread it's a blue button at the top.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/post-thread

Orebonder · Mar 30, 2021

Hello... I just completed converting my rear mounted, PTO driven snow blower to a FEL mounted, with skid steer, quick attach plate, Hydraulic Driven unit....and it works great...so far as my testing indicates .

i tached everything at different RPMS to make sure that the snowblower is performing just as it did when mounted on the rear, using the PTO shaft.

I wanted to make my own tank because I don’t like the look of the big square tanks hanging off the Back....and just because I needed a fabrication project!... lol

I used the tractor existing hydraulics to operate the chute rotation and angle deflector .....just had to add longer hoses.