GC2410 50 hr. service and synthetic fluids

[MF RED in MT]

I don't have any energy left to channel...I used it all on a 25" Black Oak with a 20' rootball that decided my ridge fence would be a nice, soft place to land. Over 40" of snowfall since Dec. 22 has left the ground saturated...and then the winds came!!! Crash, crackle, pop!

That sounds like a bad day, but in a few seasons, that oak will burn nice :thumbsup:. I think I read a post about the 2310 allowing gear oil for the front axle, do you know about that ? My 2410 does not list gear oil as an option, but after my warranty is up, the gear oil seems to me a better choice . KC

 

[ray66v]

do you know about that ? My 2410 does not list gear oil as an option

Are you sure about that?????

I can't imagine it is a different axle?????????

If you look hard enough, I bet you will find it. They only mention it in one place in my book, the rest of the places, they give you the impression that Permatran is the only option.

Check for the page that list the recommended products and capacities, look for:

Lubrication & Periodic Maintenance
Specifications & Capacities

Front Axle (4WD) Only........Permatran -or- SAE 80 GL-4

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Hey again Red...it is possible that MF has changed the specifications for the front axle on your tractor...it's much newer than mine. But, I would bet that the spec.'s are the only thing changed...in other words, the axle, gears, seals, etc. are probably the same as mine. For a 2004 GC2310 TLB (GC2300 series) from the book..."Front Axle (4-WD Only) Recommended Change Lubricant...MF Permatran 3 or SAE 80 GL-4. Now for my opinion and personal experience: Hydraulic fluid IS NOT a suitable stand alone lubricant, so if you go with the gear oil (whatever viscosity you decide to use), be sure to get an EP (extreme pressure) for better film strength and particulate suspension (overall better performance). I've personally gone to an 85w-90 EP, but my tractor use remains consistent year round and it is worked on a daily basis. You can probably use a straight weight lube just as well. Don't tell anyone (this is going to get the boys going), but Marine SAE 85W-90EP Marine Lower Unit Gear Lube is what I would suggest you use. It is a GL-5 with anti-wear additives and corrosion inhibitors. And guess what? It's available "store branded" so it's cheap! Hope that helps.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Are you sure about that?????

I can't imagine it is a different axle?????????

If you look hard enough, I bet you will find it. They only mention it in one place in my book, the rest of the places, they give you the impression that Permatran is the only option.

Check for the page that list the recommended products and capacities, look for:

Lubrication & Periodic Maintenance
Specifications & Capacities

Front Axle (4WD) Only........Permatran -or- SAE 80 GL-4

My owners manual was printed in February 2008 and the ONLY Front Axle recommended lubricant is "MF Permatran lll" in the Lubrication and Maintenance section. Also in the Lubrication and Fill Locations chart in that same section, the "type" is listed as hydraulic oil, the same for the Rear Housing and also the Four-Wheel Drive Axle.
In the same section only 2 pages past the information listed above, under Front Axle Oil and sub-paragraph of Change Front Axle Oil, the last sentence reads "Fill with fresh gear oil through the oil fill hole (3)."
This is the only reference to gear oil for the front axle, but the manual does not list any specific gear oil :licking:. KC

Mustangsallysdad, thanks for the gear oil info, I guess that MF has decided if hydraulic oil is good enough for the transmission, hydraulic system, and the rear diffferential housing, then it must be good enough for the front axle . KC

 

[mustangsallysdad]

My owners manual was printed in February 2008 and the ONLY Front Axle recommended lubricant is "MF Permatran lll" in the Lubrication and Maintenance section. Also in the Lubrication and Fill Locations chart in that same section, the "type" is listed as hydraulic oil, the same for the Rear Housing and also the Four-Wheel Drive Axle.
In the same section only 2 pages past the information listed above, under Front Axle Oil and sub-paragraph of Change Front Axle Oil, the last sentence reads "Fill with fresh gear oil through the oil fill hole (3)."
This is the only reference to gear oil for the front axle, but the manual does not list any specific gear oil :licking:. KC

Mustangsallysdad, thanks for the gear oil info, I guess that MF has decided if hydraulic oil is good enough for the transmission, hydraulic system, and the rear diffferential housing, then it must be good enough for the front axle . KC

I would use what the manual recommends while under warranty...but when that expires, I would switch to what I suggested so fast it would make your head spin! You won't have to worry about friction modifiers or anything with the GL-5...it is already EP rated and is perfect for non-hypoid gears...your axle has all 90 degree bevel gears. Some of the older GL-5's weren't good for hypoids or synchro's (transmissions) because of the "yellow" metals like brass, bronze and copper. I don't think that that is a concern anymore, however. The front axle pivot bushings "may be" bronze, but I don't know for sure as I've never had mine apart...we could get into all kinds of scenarios like axial force, shear force, etc. But, bottom line is I've used it in mine now for around 4 years and haven't had any problems...seems to perform quite well. My manual recommends a change interval of 600 hours (after the initial 50) if using Permatran 3 or GL-4. If I were still using it I would probably change it everytime I changed the crankcase oil. I just don't have much faith in it. I always strain my change fluids and have yet to find any particulate matter in the GL-5...always clean as a whistle.

 

[ray66v]

Not listing gear lube specifically, may have been just an oversight by the manual writers, or simply lost in the sometimes bad translation. There should not be any reason to disallow it in, this application.

According to my engineer, there really is not a big difference between a hydraulic oil, and a gear oil. It's all oil. There are additives that help some perform better, in some applications.

EP gear lube will withstand higher pressures than standard gear oil, or hydraulic oil can. And pinion gears tend to create high pressures.

EP gear lube is an extra margin of protection that is probably not necessary. But, when you consider that even if you buy the best synthetic EP lube, it is only about $4 a quart, you really don't have much to lose.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

HUH??? According to this engineer there is a HUGE difference between hydraulic oil and gear oil. Sure oil is oil...just like fruit is fruit...but I know the difference between an apple and an orange. These are formulated for entirely different applications. GL-5 has additives for extreme pressure, anti-wear, film strength, anti-corrosion, and the list goes on. Never was hydraulic fluid intended to be a stand alone lubricant...it has lubrication properties which enable it to be used in applications where that might be necessary and it provides a medium to help dissapate and carry heat, but in its basic form is merely a working medium. It could be replaced with an emulsion of salad oil and water. Of course then we would have to argue what's best...canola or corn oil...safflour or olive...wait, I know...soybean! Soybean would be the vegetarian version of synthetic! All right lets get serious again. Ray, what do you have in your front axle right now? How many hours?

 

[ray66v]

HUH??? According to this engineer there is a HUGE difference between hydraulic oil and gear oil.

The point WAS, in this application there isn't a HUGE difference. And according to the people who designed, and built it, they agree.

Sure oil is oil...just like fruit is fruit...but I know the difference between an apple and an orange. These are formulated for entirely different applications. GL-5 has additives for extreme pressure, anti-wear, film strength, anti-corrosion, and the list goes on.

Do you know? Hydraulic oil also has additives for; anti-wear, anti-corrosion, film strength, thermal and oxidative stability, and the list goes on.

Never was hydraulic fluid intended to be a stand alone lubricant...it has lubrication properties which enable it to be used in applications where that might be necessary and it provides a medium to help dissapate and carry heat, but in its basic form is merely a working medium.

Yes, but, it sure does a great job lubricating all the parts in our automatic transmissions, and in our tractor hydro transmissions.

I really don't want to have to debate you every time I post something. And I assume you don't either. So what do you say we give that a rest?

 

[mustangsallysdad]

The point WAS, in this application there isn't a HUGE difference. And according to the people who designed, and built it, they agree.



Do you know? Hydraulic oil also has additives for; anti-wear, anti-corrosion, film strength, thermal and oxidative stability, and the list goes on.



Yes, but, it sure does a great job lubricating all the parts in our automatic transmissions, and in our tractor hydro transmissions.

I really don't want to have to debate you every time I post something. And I assume you don't either. So what do you say we give that a rest?

I am aware of most fluid properties...including hydraulic fluids (encompasses a broad spectrum)...point is, hydraulic fluid as a stand alone lubricant is a compromise at best. Thermo and hydrodynamic properties have been a large part of my educational and practical background and generalizing (you quoted YOUR engineer "it's all oil") is, in my opinion, bad information. I prefer education and self-experience to second or third hand information. Someone new and inexperienced could read your respose and lend credibility to it simply because you quoted an engineer...that could lead them to using a product that isn't defined for their application and damage (even worse, non-warrantable) could be the end result. I wasn't debating, just counteracting what I consider bad or misinformation for the sake of the subject. I'm sure if you calmly reflect on what was posted you will see my point. A new owner could read your response and deduce that gear lubricant (who knows what viscosity or properties) is good enough for their hydrostatic transmission. You and I both know what the result of that could be. Agreed?

 

[ray66v]

A new owner could read your response and deduce that gear lubricant (who knows what viscosity or properties) is good enough for their hydrostatic transmission. You and I both know what the result of that could be. Agreed?

That is without question the weakest argument I have ever seen in my life.

After spending thousands on a tractor, people are so particular about the fluids they use until their warranty expires, the majority are afraid to even use anything except the exact products that were made, and used, by the manufacturer, even though lots of other products, that meet, or exceed, the specifications in the owners manual are available. In many cases, even after the warranty expires, they are not willing to use a different product.

As a matter of fact, it is very common to see new owners who are so concerned about the service being done properly, the don't even want to change the oil themselves.

In the event that someone could be feebleminded enough to purchase, and or, try to dump, any quantity of gear oil in their hydo, because they thought that they read it was okay, in my post. Keep in mind, they would also have to be somehow astute enough to know where the filler is.

But, I appreciate you clearing that up. :thumbsup: